Hand positioning when applying a 'dab of oppo'

[topless_mx5]

Yesterday, in the wet, I had a couple of instances where I got oversteer and was required to apply opposite lock (on a private road of course).

I always drive with my hands at quarter to 3, thumb in the groove with fingers wrapped around the wheel, and I do not move my hands from this position unless negotiating a tight corner where I would have to wind more than 180 degrees of lock.

However, I noticed that when the car got sideways, if more than about 70 degrees of opposite lock is required, I take one hand off the wheel for some reason. So for example, if going sideways around a left hand corner (counter steering right), I found myself taking my right hand off the wheel. It just felt more comfortable, natural and controllable this way, and I did catch the slide just right each time.

My question, is there a 'correct way' of applying opposite lock, should I have both hands on the wheel regardless of how much lock is required. How do other people do it?

[Zod]

With directional steering, if you have to go beyond 180 degrees of lock, you have to take a hand off the wheel, but that's a pretty extreme correction for driving on the road, as opposed to deliberately drifting on a skidpan (I don't think I've ever added more than 90 degrees of correction on the road, except when trying to save a spin on ice). Are you hooking your thumbs through the wheel? That can cause you to let go of thw wheel in sharp correctional steering moves to avoid breaking your thumbs.

[bennyboysvuk]

I do the same as you, but I think it depends on the drift that you're experiencing. I prefer the holding the wheel method instead of the letting the wheel slide through your fingers method since I think for small slides it offers more control and you can wind the lock off more quickly and accurately.

[RobM77]

This is very personal and tends to vary between drivers. I too always drive with my hands at "quarter to three", and apply opposite lock with fixed input steering. If the steering lock required goes beyond this, then I start feeding the wheel just as you would do when driving normally. I've noticed that in this situation my vision splits and I keep an eye on the wheel so that I know how many turns of oppo I've put in. However, I've watched videos of me driving cars sideways with multiple turns lock to lock, and in the vast majority of situations needing wheel feeding I've caught the slide before the feeding actually starts properly (i.e. I've only lifted the hand off and then the car comes back in line again).

[davepoth]

I've found that if I need to move my hands on the wheel while applying "oppo" I'm about to crash. If that's the case I'll feed the wheel because it gives the most control.

[_Neal_]

Another vote for feeding the wheel here. I think I also tend to let the wheel slide through my hands too, as an initial reaction to a slide, although I've never recorded myself correcting large slides on a skidpan.

[brillomaster]

i only have experience of intentional drifting - i used to let the wheel slip to catch a slide, then normally have to steer back into the slide to keep a drift going (yes this is on a track)

however, our beemer now seems to love powersliding everywhere, so now i think i keep hands on the wheel for up to 90 degree correction, then take off the top hand for further correction. If thats not enough i do let the wheel slip a quarter turn at a time if thats necessary.

when i very first started learning, i was keeping both hands on the wheel, but a full x-up is nowhere near enough to catch a full on slide - normally needs to get to near the stops if you're going properly sideways.

[waremark]

brillomaster said:

when i very first started learning, i was keeping both hands on the wheel, but a full x-up is nowhere near enough to catch a full on slide - normally needs to get to near the stops if you're going properly sideways.

Do you consider that it is ok to go properly sideways on a public road?

[BazT]

Feeding the wheel is often found to be too slow, and more often than not you'll find what's comfortable for you even if theory says it's 'wrong'.

[GravelBen]

waremark said:

Do you consider that it is ok to go properly sideways on a public road?

Depends on the road.


In answer to the OP's question, I'd suggest viewing a few videos of really good drivers on opposite lock (Vatanen in Climb Dance for example, where the car also has a slow enough steering rack to be relevant), and see what they do.

But when it comes down to it you find/develop a system that feels natural, which makes a bigger difference to your remaining calm and in control than using a 'right' method that doesn't suit you or your car.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 29th October 07:00

[davepoth]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

I tend to Drive Slide, Handsfree @ 4:40m

Seriously. It works.

Tiff even did a video of trying this - but can't find it on Youtube

You know that's a film and he probably wasn't driving at that point don't you?

In a properly balanced car you shouldn't need to do any steering - the throttle will be enough to control the slip angle. But it's a bit daft to take your hands off the wheel.

[davepoth]

Here's a good video of someone spanking a Lancia Delta S4 up a hill, you can see the crossed arms and feeding for oppo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY--2UTzom4&fea...

[CDP]

I've found myself instinctively palming the wheel in _really_ big slides. But when you're heading towards Armco at over a lepton thinking "this is bound to hurt" you correct first and think about it later.

[davepoth]

CDP said:

I've found myself instinctively palming the wheel in _really_ big slides. But when you're heading towards Armco at over a lepton thinking "this is bound to hurt" you correct first and think about it later.

Sure. Generally for track driving by the time you're in a slide big enough to warrant more lock than crossing the arms will give you, you are crashing. But in a snowy car park or a greasy roundabout where you are planning/expecting the opposite lock feeding the wheel is the way to go.

[RobM77]

davepoth said:

CDP said:

I've found myself instinctively palming the wheel in _really_ big slides. But when you're heading towards Armco at over a lepton thinking "this is bound to hurt" you correct first and think about it later.

Sure. Generally for track driving by the time you're in a slide big enough to warrant more lock than crossing the arms will give you, you are crashing. But in a snowy car park or a greasy roundabout where you are planning/expecting the opposite lock feeding the wheel is the way to go.

Maybe it's because my racing cars are quite twitchy, but I've often been on full opposite lock and haven't crashed yet! (touch wood!).

[CDP]

RobM77 said:

davepoth said:

CDP said:

I've found myself instinctively palming the wheel in _really_ big slides. But when you're heading towards Armco at over a lepton thinking "this is bound to hurt" you correct first and think about it later.

Sure. Generally for track driving by the time you're in a slide big enough to warrant more lock than crossing the arms will give you, you are crashing. But in a snowy car park or a greasy roundabout where you are planning/expecting the opposite lock feeding the wheel is the way to go.

Maybe it's because my racing cars are quite twitchy, but I've often been on full opposite lock and haven't crashed yet! (touch wood!).

You've got more room on a circuit than the road; even so in that particular case I was well over 60 degrees and had the front wheels on the grass. In fact a few people asked me how I caught it but I couldn't honestly put it down to skill. On the road it would have been a really big crash.

A few big slides or spins on a track quickly demonstrate why you shouldn't be aiming to slide around on the roads. It doesn't hurt to keep both hands in their normal places ready to correct though.

[waremark]

For a demo of the hands off technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ2CzeyCss0&fea...

[RobM77]

CDP said:

RobM77 said:

davepoth said:

CDP said:

I've found myself instinctively palming the wheel in _really_ big slides. But when you're heading towards Armco at over a lepton thinking "this is bound to hurt" you correct first and think about it later.

Sure. Generally for track driving by the time you're in a slide big enough to warrant more lock than crossing the arms will give you, you are crashing. But in a snowy car park or a greasy roundabout where you are planning/expecting the opposite lock feeding the wheel is the way to go.

Maybe it's because my racing cars are quite twitchy, but I've often been on full opposite lock and haven't crashed yet! (touch wood!).

You've got more room on a circuit than the road; even so in that particular case I was well over 60 degrees and had the front wheels on the grass. In fact a few people asked me how I caught it but I couldn't honestly put it down to skill. On the road it would have been a really big crash.

A few big slides or spins on a track quickly demonstrate why you shouldn't be aiming to slide around on the roads. It doesn't hurt to keep both hands in their normal places ready to correct though.

I would never do that on the road.

[CarbonM5]

My Mate has a video from a while back-bit boring mind.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ-V9F_eaLg

[compocon]

Never drift your own car intentially, it can go tits up without warning no matter who you are.

I've seen many a tame looking drift get tank slapped into a wall.

The back stepping out slightly whilst trying to gain traction, as opposed to slide for fun/show is as far as I'd go in my own ££.


Luckily this wasnt on a 'closed' road...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqRfQAUk830