Left foot braking
Discussion
After a lot of practice I've found braking with my left foot while keeping the revs up with my right has made driving my automatic much smoother. Maybe it's my driving style and/or my car but I've always found that there's a lag then jerk when the drive picks up again after a bend and even when pulling away.
I hasten to add it's not for going faster or the boy racer demon in me - it's genuinely, noticeably smoother. It's taken some time to get the right feel with my left foot as it was quite difficult to gauge how much pressure to use at first but now it's second nature.
I should add I've found LFB 1. more difficult and 2. less effective (smoothness wise) in my manual car.
I hasten to add it's not for going faster or the boy racer demon in me - it's genuinely, noticeably smoother. It's taken some time to get the right feel with my left foot as it was quite difficult to gauge how much pressure to use at first but now it's second nature.
I should add I've found LFB 1. more difficult and 2. less effective (smoothness wise) in my manual car.
Automatics have always struggled to know what you're doing as a driver, which is why I don't tend to like driving them very much. If you're slowing from 60mph to 35mph top go round a bend then you want 3rd gear to give you more control in the bend, but if you're doing it to enter a 40 limit then you'll want 4th gear for better economy. The auto box can't differentiate between these situations, and most just shuffle up the most economic gear regardless.
I guess what the OP's doing in this situation is getting round this problem by tricking the auto box.
Something to bear in mind though is that you're also changing the balance of the car mid corner by altering the brake balance, which is what left foot braking was initially developed for in rallying and, for some drivers, in circuit racing. This may cause undesired consequences! Also make sure that you're comfortable doing an emergency stop with your left foot; you don't want to be all confused if you suddenly need to stop quickly!
I guess what the OP's doing in this situation is getting round this problem by tricking the auto box.
Something to bear in mind though is that you're also changing the balance of the car mid corner by altering the brake balance, which is what left foot braking was initially developed for in rallying and, for some drivers, in circuit racing. This may cause undesired consequences! Also make sure that you're comfortable doing an emergency stop with your left foot; you don't want to be all confused if you suddenly need to stop quickly!
No you are right, I left foot brake my Disco and it helps no end on sweeping bends round Wales etc.
You may also want to practice building the revs up before pulling out, can also be a big help.
On some newer cars this practice may deceive the Brake assist (Manuel and Auto) and cause the car to carry out an emergency stop.
Sean
You may also want to practice building the revs up before pulling out, can also be a big help.
On some newer cars this practice may deceive the Brake assist (Manuel and Auto) and cause the car to carry out an emergency stop.
Sean
LordGrover said:
After a lot of practice I've found braking with my left foot while keeping the revs up with my right has made driving my automatic much smoother. Maybe it's my driving style and/or my car but I've always found that there's a lag then jerk when the drive picks up again after a bend and even when pulling away.
I hasten to add it's not for going faster or the boy racer demon in me - it's genuinely, noticeably smoother. It's taken some time to get the right feel with my left foot as it was quite difficult to gauge how much pressure to use at first but now it's second nature.
I should add I've found LFB 1. more difficult and 2. less effective (smoothness wise) in my manual car.
I hasten to add it's not for going faster or the boy racer demon in me - it's genuinely, noticeably smoother. It's taken some time to get the right feel with my left foot as it was quite difficult to gauge how much pressure to use at first but now it's second nature.
I should add I've found LFB 1. more difficult and 2. less effective (smoothness wise) in my manual car.
I'm with Rob on this one. Until the control electronics develops machine vision to interpret the road ahead and mind-reading skills to identify the driver's intention auto boxes will not be able to dish up the optimum gear in all circumstances. Obviously, with a big grunty engine, powerful brakes and box control electronics that talks to the engine management system to engineer silky change quality the fact that the box tends to dish up the highest gear possible as soon as you take your foot off the accelerator can be lived with but that is not quite the same thing.
Edited by Colin Mill on Thursday 19th August 11:57
Colin Mill said:
I'm with Rob on this one. Until the control electronics develops machine vision to interpret the road ahead and mind-reading skills to identify the driver's intention auto boxes will not be able to dish up the optimum gear in all circumstances. Obviously, with a big grunty engine, powerful brakes and box control electronics that talks to the engine management system to engineer silky change quality the fact that the box tends to dish up the highest gear possible as soon as you take your foot off the accelerator can be lived with but that is not quite the same thing.
It's very close though....a manual window will let. You adjust the gap more accurately than lecy ones, no one is doing away with lecy windows though.Edited by Colin Mill on Thursday 19th August 11:57
In 30 years time people will laugh at the idea of gear changes the way we now view manual choke and hand cranking engines.
Tiggsy said:
Colin Mill said:
I'm with Rob on this one. Until the control electronics develops machine vision to interpret the road ahead and mind-reading skills to identify the driver's intention auto boxes will not be able to dish up the optimum gear in all circumstances. Obviously, with a big grunty engine, powerful brakes and box control electronics that talks to the engine management system to engineer silky change quality the fact that the box tends to dish up the highest gear possible as soon as you take your foot off the accelerator can be lived with but that is not quite the same thing.
It's very close though....a manual window will let. You adjust the gap more accurately than lecy ones, no one is doing away with lecy windows though.Edited by Colin Mill on Thursday 19th August 11:57
In 30 years time people will laugh at the idea of gear changes the way we now view manual choke and hand cranking engines.
There most certainly is an advantage to being able to select what gear you want to be in at any given time!Don't get me wrong, I'd have an auto, but probably not for driving pleasure unless it had a really good paddle shift system.
Tiggsy said:
In 30 years time people will laugh at the idea of gear changes the way we now view manual choke and hand cranking engines.
I somehow doubt it. The USA has been heavily into auto boxes for the last 50 years however figures as low as 20% are still quoted for automatics sales in Europe. I suspect that for petrolheads everywhere (I notice that car enthusiasts in the USA that I know still drive 'stick-shift' and are proud of the ability) the manual box will still be with us for as long as we have internal combustion engines driving our cars.Colin Mill said:
Tiggsy said:
In 30 years time people will laugh at the idea of gear changes the way we now view manual choke and hand cranking engines.
I somehow doubt it. The USA has been heavily into auto boxes for the last 50 years however figures as low as 20% are still quoted for automatics sales in Europe. I suspect that for petrolheads everywhere (I notice that car enthusiasts in the USA that I know still drive 'stick-shift' and are proud of the ability) the manual box will still be with us for as long as we have internal combustion engines driving our cars.All other decisions will be by the onboard systems, talking to the onboard systems of the other vehicles on the road.
GPS driven 3d mapping will decide your most efficient speed and "gear" for any situation.
Perhaps some historic vehicles may be allowed to join in.
WhoseGeneration said:
GPS driven 3d mapping will decide your most efficient speed and "gear" for any situation. Perhaps some historic vehicles may be allowed to join in.
To do the job as well as a good driver it will take more than GPS - it will have to have machine vision to interpret the traffic situation and anticipate how that might develop. I doubt anyone will bother as existing automatics do an adequate job and the whole thing will possibly be overtaken by electric traction (be it hybrid or otherwise).Since it's still permissible to use an ox-drawn cart on our roads today I suspect we will be able to use our IC powered toys for a long time yet - thankfully
RobM77 said:
Tiggsy said:
Colin Mill said:
I'm with Rob on this one. Until the control electronics develops machine vision to interpret the road ahead and mind-reading skills to identify the driver's intention auto boxes will not be able to dish up the optimum gear in all circumstances. Obviously, with a big grunty engine, powerful brakes and box control electronics that talks to the engine management system to engineer silky change quality the fact that the box tends to dish up the highest gear possible as soon as you take your foot off the accelerator can be lived with but that is not quite the same thing.
It's very close though....a manual window will let. You adjust the gap more accurately than lecy ones, no one is doing away with lecy windows though.Edited by Colin Mill on Thursday 19th August 11:57
In 30 years time people will laugh at the idea of gear changes the way we now view manual choke and hand cranking engines.
There most certainly is an advantage to being able to select what gear you want to be in at any given time!Don't get me wrong, I'd have an auto, but probably not for driving pleasure unless it had a really good paddle shift system.
Of course for pure driving pleasure then you wouldn't choose it, but considering how much mileage we do these days not in hoon mode but just trying to keep the whole experience as painless as possible.
Re people who say that the auto box can't look ahead, whilst this is true, I suspect have not driven a really decent modern set up.
On the hill into our village with the manual I would get the speed right at the top of the hill, start of limit as it happens, change to third and use compression to keep the speed bang on at 30 down to the point where braking starts for the island at the bottom.
My auto does that in D, how the frick it knows to do it I don't know as any auto had previously had to either force it into low, or ride the brakes due to lack of overrun braking. Thus I generally hated autos. This thing I lift off in the preceding NSL, use acceleration sense to get the speed right for the limit start, and the box goes to third and holds it down the hill.
but neither would I have one on a pure driver's car, full stop. Not even an "unless" about it.But for a workhorse to waft about in? I wouldn't have even considered an auto at one time, and I only considered one with dual clutch system as I'm still less than enamoured with torque converter types. But even these are catching up.
Let's face it if we moan about throttle by wire systems having a lack of response, then introducing an auto into the system adds a whole new dimension of less connectivity.
So I think we aren't too far apart in view but have slightly different needs and circumstances.
Back on topic, left foot braking seems to confuse autos imho. Personally I only use it in very slow speed shunting around. e.g. parking etc.
That was actually my original point - autos are great (if done well, for example Mercedes), but only for specific applications.Colin Mill said:
WhoseGeneration said:
GPS driven 3d mapping will decide your most efficient speed and "gear" for any situation. Perhaps some historic vehicles may be allowed to join in.
To do the job as well as a good driver it will take more than GPS - it will have to have machine vision to interpret the traffic situation and anticipate how that might develop. I doubt anyone will bother as existing automatics do an adequate job and the whole thing will possibly be overtaken by electric traction (be it hybrid or otherwise).Since it's still permissible to use an ox-drawn cart on our roads today I suspect we will be able to use our IC powered toys for a long time yet - thankfully
Others (including Ford and Honda) have tried following suit since but people used to manual, or traditional automatic, boxes don't like the completely stepless shifts, which tend to give less of an impression of performance than lots of revvy changes. So they started building in things like "sports" mode for the petrolheads where you lose all the advantage of a CVT by having artificial step changes controlled by computer.
A mate of mine is a semi pro rally driver who also uses LFB on "fun" roads, we just happened to be talking about this the other day, he told me that on some new cars you don't gain anything as applying the brake cuts the fuel supply meaning no engine power. He said that it meant that alot of re-programming is required to the engine management to overcome this to enable them to be rally prepared.
Variomatic said:
Hate to drag up an old thread, but Daf did it over 50 years ago with the Variomatic using nothing more than some centrifugal weights, a couple of vacuum pipes and a pair of rubber bands! Sit at any speed on light throttle and you'll stay in high gear, accelerate gently and ditto. Accelerate hard and the engine will reach and maintain the peak of its torque curve with the ratio varying to bring your speed up - guaranteed maximum acceleration and economy because top of the torque curve (with appropriate gearing) is the best place for an engine to sit for both.
Plus, as I recall from a Daf 33 my brother owned many years ago, it had the deeply amusing ability to go just as fast in reverse as forwards. Engage reverse, floor the accelerator, and everything happened in exactly the same way as usual, except in a backwards direction! A good trick for causing consternation amongst unsuspecting passengers. 
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