Crossing hands whilst holding the steering wheel.
Discussion
Firstly appologies if this has been covered many times before, I did a search and I couldn't find very much.
With regards to holding the wheel, when I learnt to drive I was always told to feed the wheel through my hands but I know that for performance driving it's generally accepted to hold the wheel at 3 and 9 and cross hands(correct me if I'm wrong) I've been trying to get into the habit of this but I have one question, once the wheel has been turned as far as it will go i.e. the left hand is where the right hand was and vice versa, what happens if you need to turn the wheel even more? (I've found this on a couple of roundabouts, it might be that my car has too many turns lock to lock) The only thing I can do is to let go with one hand but then I didn't think that was right as it meant I only had one hand on the wheel!
Has anyone got any advice?
Many thanks
Paul
With regards to holding the wheel, when I learnt to drive I was always told to feed the wheel through my hands but I know that for performance driving it's generally accepted to hold the wheel at 3 and 9 and cross hands(correct me if I'm wrong) I've been trying to get into the habit of this but I have one question, once the wheel has been turned as far as it will go i.e. the left hand is where the right hand was and vice versa, what happens if you need to turn the wheel even more? (I've found this on a couple of roundabouts, it might be that my car has too many turns lock to lock) The only thing I can do is to let go with one hand but then I didn't think that was right as it meant I only had one hand on the wheel!
Has anyone got any advice?
Many thanks
Paul
Generally you _should_ feed the wheel as it gives you more control.
If you need to move the wheel faster it's easier as you say to cross your arms. Unlike a race car, you will have to turn the steering wheel further to reach full lock, and the only way to do this is take one hand off the wheel and re-grip it to turn further.
I hope that made sense? lol
If you need to move the wheel faster it's easier as you say to cross your arms. Unlike a race car, you will have to turn the steering wheel further to reach full lock, and the only way to do this is take one hand off the wheel and re-grip it to turn further.
I hope that made sense? lol
You have to anticipate how much lock you are going to need and choose your method appropriately.
If in doubt, feed the wheel, and you won't go wrong - which is why it's the default method taught I guess!
The ridedrive website has some good stuff on this: http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs10.htm
If in doubt, feed the wheel, and you won't go wrong - which is why it's the default method taught I guess!
The ridedrive website has some good stuff on this: http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs10.htm
http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/index.htm
Have a look at the driving and car control handbooks linked in the bottom right hand corner of the page. Great info there. Maybe not particularly on push-pull steering, but you did ask for a driving bible
Have a look at the driving and car control handbooks linked in the bottom right hand corner of the page. Great info there. Maybe not particularly on push-pull steering, but you did ask for a driving bible
reggie82 said:
http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/index.htm
Have a look at the driving and car control handbooks linked in the bottom right hand corner of the page. Great info there. Maybe not particularly on push-pull steering, but you did ask for a driving bible
They're both bookmarked on the browser now, thanks.Have a look at the driving and car control handbooks linked in the bottom right hand corner of the page. Great info there. Maybe not particularly on push-pull steering, but you did ask for a driving bible
The fixed position is meant to be used on track and I believe the idea is that by keeping your hands in a fixed position you always know in what direction the wheels are pointing.
As already stated racing cars tend to have a shorter lock and so you don't need to feed the wheel. In my limited experience on track, this is also true of a road car, even on a hair pin a full cross of the arms is all that was needed and so you didn't need change your grip to get more lock.
Tracks generally tend to be wider than public roads and you don't (hopefully) have to worry about what is coming the other way, so the bend isn't as sharp as it is when you have half a single carriage of a public road to go round.
I had always believed that the general consus was that you shouldn't need this technique on the road as you shouldn't be driving that quick.
As already stated racing cars tend to have a shorter lock and so you don't need to feed the wheel. In my limited experience on track, this is also true of a road car, even on a hair pin a full cross of the arms is all that was needed and so you didn't need change your grip to get more lock.
Tracks generally tend to be wider than public roads and you don't (hopefully) have to worry about what is coming the other way, so the bend isn't as sharp as it is when you have half a single carriage of a public road to go round.
I had always believed that the general consus was that you shouldn't need this technique on the road as you shouldn't be driving that quick.
supersport said:
I had always believed that the general consus was that you shouldn't need this technique on the road as you shouldn't be driving that quick.
I agree with this (although don't practice it). Of course if you need to take evasive action or anything then it is ok to cross your hands or else you wouldn't be able to move the steering wheel quick enough.It's worth bearing in mind that if it does go horribly wrong and you8 crash when your arms are crossed over the steering wheel, you are likely to end up with your wristwatch embedded in your forehead when the air bag deploys. Personally, I'm never comfortable using fixed-arm steering on the road, preffering the 'combination method', which involves moving your arms across before the corner (takes some getting used to as you need to anticipate how much lock you'll need in advance, but like anything, practice a bit and you won't even need to thik about it), so that when you turn the wheel they are at the ten-to-two position. That way if you have to make a correction, or take evasion mid corner, you have plenty of lock to play with either way, and if the airbag does deploy it won't break your arm or face.
What the OP is describing is fixed input steering, which gives more control and therefore safety, which is why it's used in racing. However, in a road car with multiple turns lock to lock it can only be used in slight bends. When you need to turn the wheel more then you need to feed it. Advanced Driving tends to favour larger sweeps to feed rather than the shuffling motion most often taught to learners.
So I take it large sweeps would be the combination method? I tried it on the way home last night and it does take a bit of getting used to but I can certainly see the argument for it being more balanced, just find it a bit hard to get a smooth transition back to a "level" wheel.
I hasten to add I'm doing this at normal driving speeds, as I used to tell my guitar students, learn something at slow speed rather than trying to play fast straight away otherwise it'll be a mess. I would imagine the same applies to driving.
I hasten to add I'm doing this at normal driving speeds, as I used to tell my guitar students, learn something at slow speed rather than trying to play fast straight away otherwise it'll be a mess. I would imagine the same applies to driving.
Paul 8v said:
So I take it large sweeps would be the combination method? I tried it on the way home last night and it does take a bit of getting used to but I can certainly see the argument for it being more balanced, just find it a bit hard to get a smooth transition back to a "level" wheel.
I hasten to add I'm doing this at normal driving speeds, as I used to tell my guitar students, learn something at slow speed rather than trying to play fast straight away otherwise it'll be a mess. I would imagine the same applies to driving.
The idea is to predict when you're going to need more turns and start the feeding from the outset. For example, if you're taking a tight right hand bend, move your right hand to the top of the wheel, and keep your left hand where it is. Your right hand then pulls the wheel down and the left hand loosens its grip during this and repositions. When you come to go straight again you do the reverse, and aim to get your hands back in your straight ahead position one at a time (which for me is quarter to three, for a whole host of reasons), so when it's practical to reposition your hand at quarter to three or three than do it with one hand, and then with the other when it's practical. If using quarter to three the sweeps would generally be no bigger than 90 degrees, because that would leave two hands on one side of the wheel for a short while, which isn't balanced and therefore not recommended. It's easier to demonstrate than describe really. I'd be happy to demonstrate anytime if you're round my way. Alternatively, just look on You Tube for a demo by a recognised advanced instructor.I hasten to add I'm doing this at normal driving speeds, as I used to tell my guitar students, learn something at slow speed rather than trying to play fast straight away otherwise it'll be a mess. I would imagine the same applies to driving.
The Black Flash said:
You have to anticipate how much lock you are going to need and choose your method appropriately.
If in doubt, feed the wheel, and you won't go wrong - which is why it's the default method taught I guess!
The ridedrive website has some good stuff on this: http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs10.htm
This is what I do, I anticipate the corner coming up and if I can see it's going to require more turn than I can manage at 9 and 3 on my car's rediculously long steering rack I position my hands ready for the turn and feed the wheel through ensuring control is maintained all the way through the turn.If in doubt, feed the wheel, and you won't go wrong - which is why it's the default method taught I guess!
The ridedrive website has some good stuff on this: http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs10.htm
Good link btw
The Black Flash said:
You have to anticipate how much lock you are going to need and choose your method appropriately.
If in doubt, feed the wheel, and you won't go wrong - which is why it's the default method taught I guess!
The ridedrive website has some good stuff on this: http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs10.htm
That's a great link, thanks!If in doubt, feed the wheel, and you won't go wrong - which is why it's the default method taught I guess!
The ridedrive website has some good stuff on this: http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs10.htm
Not exactly on the original post but very much on the same topic...
Where do we stand on thumbs-in/thumbs-out of the steering wheel?
I was told 'thumbs out' at all times, especially when driving quickly on the road or on track, as if you do have a nasty and the wheels hit the curb then the wheel will spin rapidly and can break your thumbs. It took a bit of getting used to, but I don't think thumbs-out offers any less control of the wheel. Very few drivers (even petrolheads) seem to drive this way though.
Where do we stand on thumbs-in/thumbs-out of the steering wheel?
I was told 'thumbs out' at all times, especially when driving quickly on the road or on track, as if you do have a nasty and the wheels hit the curb then the wheel will spin rapidly and can break your thumbs. It took a bit of getting used to, but I don't think thumbs-out offers any less control of the wheel. Very few drivers (even petrolheads) seem to drive this way though.
spoonoff said:
Not exactly on the original post but very much on the same topic...
Where do we stand on thumbs-in/thumbs-out of the steering wheel?
I was told 'thumbs out' at all times, especially when driving quickly on the road or on track, as if you do have a nasty and the wheels hit the curb then the wheel will spin rapidly and can break your thumbs. It took a bit of getting used to, but I don't think thumbs-out offers any less control of the wheel. Very few drivers (even petrolheads) seem to drive this way though.
I got into the habit after a fair bit of off-road driving where bumps can snatch the wheel and will easily break a wrongly-positioned thumb. Where do we stand on thumbs-in/thumbs-out of the steering wheel?
I was told 'thumbs out' at all times, especially when driving quickly on the road or on track, as if you do have a nasty and the wheels hit the curb then the wheel will spin rapidly and can break your thumbs. It took a bit of getting used to, but I don't think thumbs-out offers any less control of the wheel. Very few drivers (even petrolheads) seem to drive this way though.
Lefty 200 Drams said:
spoonoff said:
Not exactly on the original post but very much on the same topic...
Where do we stand on thumbs-in/thumbs-out of the steering wheel?
I was told 'thumbs out' at all times, especially when driving quickly on the road or on track, as if you do have a nasty and the wheels hit the curb then the wheel will spin rapidly and can break your thumbs. It took a bit of getting used to, but I don't think thumbs-out offers any less control of the wheel. Very few drivers (even petrolheads) seem to drive this way though.
I got into the habit after a fair bit of off-road driving where bumps can snatch the wheel and will easily break a wrongly-positioned thumb. Where do we stand on thumbs-in/thumbs-out of the steering wheel?
I was told 'thumbs out' at all times, especially when driving quickly on the road or on track, as if you do have a nasty and the wheels hit the curb then the wheel will spin rapidly and can break your thumbs. It took a bit of getting used to, but I don't think thumbs-out offers any less control of the wheel. Very few drivers (even petrolheads) seem to drive this way though.
Paul 8v said:
I remember seeing the F1 drivers let go of the wheel when they know they are going to have a big impact, not the most natural reaction I would have thought though.
Yes - most notably Hamilton's big shunt last season; he clearly let go of the wheel before the accident. I've often wondered whether it's better to brace yourself against the wheel or let go of it; I've seen both done.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff