Driving for pleasure resulting in mild guilt

[briers]

I have always enjoyed driving and I have a few routes I regularly use, just for fun, in the evening or early in the morning.

I tend to go out in favourable conditions and recently came back from a short break away and took the 335d out for 2 nights in a row.

Flipping into manual and following a police driver training route which is a stunning drive and that I have driven many times.


I take my driving very seriously and don't purposely break the limit and I also do not take risks on corners I cannot gain visibility on and I also reduce the speed when other vehicles are about, when 60 doesn't seem like a good idea.

However, i do drive with, shall we say gusto. To re-iterate that doesn't mean speeding, it just means later braking, taking corners at slightly higher speed and good positive acceleration back up to speed.


Despite all attempts to ensure it's as safe as possible, the mild adrenaline shot and conscience sometimes meet in the middle and tell me perhaps this isn't the wisest thing I could be doing. I'm a very aware person so maybe this is down to personality.


Ever thought anything similar if you do this sort of driving?

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

Yes, and I found the solution in further training.

I used to get back from a spirited drive, and while I enjoyed it at the time there was often a nagging doubt that I'd occasionally been relying on luck more than judgment.

After some time working on it I'm now satisfied that I can judge hazards and conditions well enough to get it right almost all the time.

These days I usually get back from a drive and can say that I've driven as fast as I comfortably could, and didn't do anything I should be ashamed of.

It's taken almost three years, but I'm much happier as a result. If you're the thinking type, it could be good for you too.

[Dr.Moreau]

Solution: Get a bike as then you can go fast and the only person your putting at risk is yourself (well more so than a car).

[spoonoff]

I'd say the solution is get a sweet handling, relatively low-powered car, say a 106 Rallye or mk 1 MX-5. In a 335d when you come to a NSL from a 30, I imagine you're at the limit in -literally- a couple of seconds.

I'm sure many may disagree but I can't see how you can drive an even modestly high-performing car down a decent road 'with gusto', as you put it, without exceeding 60. I'd say if you want to stick to the limits, good for you, but drop the power and the grip and up the fun.

[briers]

I was going to get a 3.0 z4 initially but the mrs stuck her foot down.

Yea, its 2.5sec for 40-60 so it is over in a flash. Even within the limits it pulls nicely, you just have to be careful, especially if you go from low speeds as the second turbo kicks in higher up the range and if you don't remove your foot it keeps going pretty hard.


It's certainly fun still, granted not as much as your suggestions.

Edited by briers on Friday 2nd July 14:20

[vonhosen]

I derive pleasure from almost any driving & I don't feel guilty about that.

[Dangerous Dan]

vonhosen said:

I derive pleasure from almost any driving & I don't feel guilty about that.

+1

For me, driving is like smoking a fine cigar or drinking a glass of vintage whiskey - I enjoy it, and to hell with anyone else's opinion!

[briers]

I don't care what other people think either

I'm questioning whether its sensible to go for an enthusiastic drive as the safety margin is drastically reduced and you are effectively creating more of a risk to other road users and increasing the risk of loosing control or meeting something around the corner.

Whilst all effort is made to ensure your speed matches your visual distance, you still increase the risks.

I'm not asking whether i should be going on these drives, i'm asking if anyone thinks this is a rational or irrational thought, or if anyone thinks the same.

[Mag1calTrev0r]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

Yes, and I found the solution in further training.

I used to get back from a spirited drive, and while I enjoyed it at the time there was often a nagging doubt that I'd occasionally been relying on luck more than judgment.

After some time working on it I'm now satisfied that I can judge hazards and conditions well enough to get it right almost all the time.

These days I usually get back from a drive and can say that I've driven as fast as I comfortably could, and didn't do anything I should be ashamed of.

It's taken almost three years, but I'm much happier as a result. If you're the thinking type, it could be good for you too.

Exactly the reason for me taking additional training... I'm getting there 6 months in but I do, if I'm honest, 'slip up' on occasion. To be fair, I generally learn from them, which makes me a better driver.

[vonhosen]

briers said:

I don't care what other people think either

I'm questioning whether its sensible to go for an enthusiastic drive as the safety margin is drastically reduced and you are effectively creating more of a risk to other road users and increasing the risk of loosing control or meeting something around the corner.

Whilst all effort is made to ensure your speed matches your visual distance, you still increase the risks.

I'm not asking whether i should be going on these drives, i'm asking if anyone thinks this is a rational or irrational thought, or if anyone thinks the same.

If I understand you correctly, I don't need to drive 'enthusiastically' & increase risks to derive pleasure.

[WhoseGeneration]

briers said:

I don't care what other people think either

I'm questioning whether its sensible to go for an enthusiastic drive as the safety margin is drastically reduced and you are effectively creating more of a risk to other road users and increasing the risk of loosing control or meeting something around the corner.

Whilst all effort is made to ensure your speed matches your visual distance, you still increase the risks.

I'm not asking whether i should be going on these drives, i'm asking if anyone thinks this is a rational or irrational thought, or if anyone thinks the same.

You don't make sense.
Enthusiastic driving on the Public roads should never mean any danger to oneself or, more importantly, others.
Whether obeying speed limits or not.
Because that would be dangerous driving.
Dangerous driving is not, in the main, tolerated on trackdays or in Motorsports either.

[reggie82]

briers said:

I don't care what other people think either

I'm questioning whether its sensible to go for an enthusiastic drive as the safety margin is drastically reduced and you are effectively creating more of a risk to other road users and increasing the risk of loosing control or meeting something around the corner.

Whilst all effort is made to ensure your speed matches your visual distance, you still increase the risks.

I'm not asking whether i should be going on these drives, i'm asking if anyone thinks this is a rational or irrational thought, or if anyone thinks the same.

I know exactly what you mean, and it's quite normal i think. You're not saying you take risks, you're just saying that by driving slower the risks could be minimized further by a negligible amount.

[briers]

reggie82 said:

I know exactly what you mean, and it's quite normal i think. You're not saying you take risks, you're just saying that by driving slower the risks could be minimized further by a negligible amount.

Exactly,

People seem to think that providing you do the limit or under you are driving safely.

I don't see it like that, there are plenty of times when you pass a junction down a 60mph country road when 60mph isn't a wise speed to be doing in case something pulls out. This extends to corners and road quality.


Driving enthusiastically generally means reaching the limit more quickly, taking corners at slightly higher speeds, braking later etc and all of this means your average speed is higher. And this higher average speed can increase the chances of encountering a problem, whether it be a cyclist on a bend, a tractor on a bend, loosing traction or even control over a bumpy road surface under braking or being unable to avoid or stop in the event of something pulling out. The majority of the time these risks are directly affecting other road users.

[nogsk]

Why not just enjoy the car and the driving? The OP sounds like a rational chap, just drive it sensibly have fun and don't beat yourself up about it, life's too short.
Or, conversely, buy something with batteries from an old milk float, troll around at 28 mph and feel worthy?

I often go for drives, not 'pointless' as I enjoy it, pick my roads and my times carefully and drive according to my abilities and the conditions.

I've been doing this on motorbikes and cars for over 30 years and remain guilt free.

[Phisp]

briers said:

Driving enthusiastically generally means reaching the limit more quickly, taking corners at slightly higher speeds, braking later etc and all of this means your average speed is higher. And this higher average speed can increase the chances of encountering a problem, whether it be a cyclist on a bend, a tractor on a bend, loosing traction or even control over a bumpy road surface under braking or being unable to avoid or stop in the event of something pulling out. The majority of the time these risks are directly affecting other road users.

What you are describing here is not "enthusiastic" driving but "unsafe" driving. The actual speed is irrelevant if you can't stop in time, when necessary.

[johnao]

briers said:

People seem to think that providing you do the limit or under you are driving safely.

I agree with you on this one. In addition, there are many drivers out there who don't understand the concept of the NSL. When driving along a country lane, say, they will often make a comment to me to the effect of... "how come it's 60 mph here, you can't possibly do 60 mph here but, in the towns where you're only allowed to do 30 mph it's often quite safe to do more than that!"

briers said:

Driving enthusiastically generally means reaching the limit more quickly, taking corners at slightly higher speeds, braking later etc and all of this means your average speed is higher. And this higher average speed can increase the chances of encountering a problem, whether it be a cyclist on a bend, a tractor on a bend, loosing traction or even control over a bumpy road surface under braking or being unable to avoid or stop in the event of something pulling out.

I disagree. I think you are muddling your thoughts with the "speed kills" propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. A higher average speed does not, Per Se, necessarily mean that you will..."increase the chances of encountering a problem". Provided you are always able to stop on your side of the road in the distance seen to be clear, are using a systematic approach to dealing with all hazards, and driving in accordance with a properly thought through driving plan... then your average speed, whether it is high or low, will not ..."increase the chances of encountering a problem"

briers said:

The majority of the time these risks are directly affecting other road users.

Only if there is a risk, which there shouldn't be. If there is a risk it's because of the manner of your driving not the higher average speed. If you feel that the speed is too high it's because of errors in the way in which the car is being driven

I would even argue that a conscientious advanced driver who drives at well above the prevailing average speed of other road users is probably significantly safer than the "45 mph everywhere" drivers who are not fully engaged with what's going on around them.

Edited by johnao on Thursday 8th July 17:24

[reggie82]

There is pretty much always a risk of some sort when driving though. You can make safe progression, but imo you can be safer by not making progression. The more progression you make, the more the risks increase. I'm not taking about taking risks here, just that the probability of having a collision of some kind increases.

It's like brake-gear overlap. People claim you are decreasing risk by doing this, but it's by such a small amount it's negligible!

I don't think people are disagreeing here, just deciphering the OP's communication in different ways.

[ILoveSpeedBumps]

I really think that you always need to drive to suit the road. Ive been down many NSL roads where doing 60mph would be insane. On the other hand there are many straight roads where you could easily do 100mph and pose no threat to anyone.


Secondly i never feel guilty about any mistake or action i take when driving as long as i always learn from them. Feeling guilty about my mistakes wont make me a safer driver learning from them will.

[ClassOne]

We are all (OK... we know there are exceptions!!) conditioned to to know 'right from wrong' from a very early age and in relation to driving this is mainly about speed or drinking/drug driving etc....its natural therefore to have feelings of guilt if these 'limits' are pushed!! The more 'aware' the individual the greater the effect will be.......by 'aware' read 'self questioning' ......"was 100 mph along that straight such a good idea, it felt good at the time, it was safe.....I could see for miles with fields left and right..........." and so on!!

Briars is right that it is very much the type of person one is.......some are ntural risk takers and some are not!!

I have the same feelings in cars and on bikes........ultimately I tell myself that by always applying my considerable training and resultant skill levels at all times I and all others around me are safe.........but I will always question myself regardless and I think I am a better driver for it!!

In short.......get your skill levels up, apply them at all times, ask yourself the questions and be happy

Enjoy

[RobM77]

Provided it's safe, and your judgement of what's safe is reliable and accurate, then I don't see why you should feel guilty. Guilt can only be a manefestation of something that you feel isn't quite right, so maybe ask yourself that question?

In my humble and possibly innacurate opinion, provided one can deal with the safety aspect ok, the only guilt one should feel should be whether you're within the law or not. The law is no respector of car, driver, weather, traffic, night or day; there are just posted speed limits and cameras or aholes in vans waiting to take your license away if you stray over that particular speed, regardless of the situation. We can't change that, so we just have to put up with it. Personally, I find modern cars and tyres so capable that I can't really have "fun" anymore on the public road without breaking the law, so instead I derive a great deal of pleasure from non speed related enjoyment, such as feeling the grip and balance of my car, making my progress as smooth as possible, getting my lines right, seeing hazards early enough to take appropriate action etc. Making my driving safer, in other words. My main interest is really in motor racing, because on track if I drive fast I get praised and rewarded, not arrested