Horses - What to do about them if you have a noisy car?
Discussion
Hands up, I made a mistake today, but I'm not really sure how to correct it!
I was exiting a 30 into NSL, long left hander, brilliant fun this one. Second gear up to about 50-55, grab third, car balanced nicely. Looking up the road, watching vanishing point open up, and rolling on the accelerator to take me to 60 *JUST* as I see some horses on the offside about 50m infront of me..... I must admit that I saw them a fraction (maybe 5-10m) late, as they were somewhat camoflaged against bushes.
So basically I looked like Mr Toad here and had very few outs. I had already startled the horses before I'd seen them due to the noise, and I didn't think it sensible to slam on the anchors as a) the car was slightly loaded up exiting the turn, so I had to wait until I was straightened up, b) the rear brakes can squeel loudly, c) I don't think it likely that I'd have pulled up sufficiently short of the horses to not scare them anyway.
I took option d), which was to come straight off accelerator, braking firmly but smoothly and pulling hard over to my side of the road as much as I could - must have passed the horses at >30mph, however. The horses were evidentally not happy, bucking around a bit & lots of whanker signs from riders (which was good, as the horses couldn't have been THAT upset if riders are able to gesticulate) - riders both stayed on the horses so all was well. Had they been ejected, of course I would have stopped. As it stood, with a lady giving me some very significant whanker gesticulations, I thought it best to carry on - no point getting involved in an argument, I don't think any apologies would have been well recieved.
I wasn't speeding, I could easily have stopped within the distance I could see (I'd also scanned my side of road first, knew that was clear, just saw the horses slightly late), but it was the noise I was making that effectively reduced my braking zone, it's a weird one to explain.
Upshot is, what can you do about this? I don't think I was driving too fast to be honest, were there a cyclist / car crash / tractor ahead I could easily have pulled up (albeit slightly dynamically!) - I just didn't think that doing an emergency stop in front of a horse was the best plan, better to trundle past as widely and quietly as possible, given the situation. They were pretty much in the 'worst' spot for this too, further up the road there would have been no drama, further around the bend and I would have seen them earlier whilst not accelerating..
I just don't know what to do to be honest, slowing down is an obvious 'answer', but I wasn't exactly cornering at 10/10ths there, just briskly cornering - were it not for the specific case of some large animals being driven on a busy road there would never be a problem.....
I'm confused. I aim to never upset anyone else on the road, but did today, and don't see how not to, unless I buy a much more quiet car, which is boring.
I was exiting a 30 into NSL, long left hander, brilliant fun this one. Second gear up to about 50-55, grab third, car balanced nicely. Looking up the road, watching vanishing point open up, and rolling on the accelerator to take me to 60 *JUST* as I see some horses on the offside about 50m infront of me..... I must admit that I saw them a fraction (maybe 5-10m) late, as they were somewhat camoflaged against bushes.
So basically I looked like Mr Toad here and had very few outs. I had already startled the horses before I'd seen them due to the noise, and I didn't think it sensible to slam on the anchors as a) the car was slightly loaded up exiting the turn, so I had to wait until I was straightened up, b) the rear brakes can squeel loudly, c) I don't think it likely that I'd have pulled up sufficiently short of the horses to not scare them anyway.
I took option d), which was to come straight off accelerator, braking firmly but smoothly and pulling hard over to my side of the road as much as I could - must have passed the horses at >30mph, however. The horses were evidentally not happy, bucking around a bit & lots of whanker signs from riders (which was good, as the horses couldn't have been THAT upset if riders are able to gesticulate) - riders both stayed on the horses so all was well. Had they been ejected, of course I would have stopped. As it stood, with a lady giving me some very significant whanker gesticulations, I thought it best to carry on - no point getting involved in an argument, I don't think any apologies would have been well recieved.
I wasn't speeding, I could easily have stopped within the distance I could see (I'd also scanned my side of road first, knew that was clear, just saw the horses slightly late), but it was the noise I was making that effectively reduced my braking zone, it's a weird one to explain.
Upshot is, what can you do about this? I don't think I was driving too fast to be honest, were there a cyclist / car crash / tractor ahead I could easily have pulled up (albeit slightly dynamically!) - I just didn't think that doing an emergency stop in front of a horse was the best plan, better to trundle past as widely and quietly as possible, given the situation. They were pretty much in the 'worst' spot for this too, further up the road there would have been no drama, further around the bend and I would have seen them earlier whilst not accelerating..
I just don't know what to do to be honest, slowing down is an obvious 'answer', but I wasn't exactly cornering at 10/10ths there, just briskly cornering - were it not for the specific case of some large animals being driven on a busy road there would never be a problem.....
I'm confused. I aim to never upset anyone else on the road, but did today, and don't see how not to, unless I buy a much more quiet car, which is boring.
It sounds like they didn't have any sort of HiViz on or you would have seen them earlier. From a car driver's point of view I suppose you did it as best you could and getting off the throttle is what I do, even in my Land Cruiser. From the riders point of view and clearly for the road conditions you were going too fast or the incident wouldn't have happened.
DocJock said:
Sounds like they need to take some responsibility for exposing an animal upset by normal road traffic to road traffic conditions...
I know this is in AD, so maybe going off topic, but this does peeve me. I was talking to somone who is quite happy to ride a skittish horse on public roads. She said it will rear up, spin & kick out at passing cars. She admitted to catching a stirrup on the side of a Land Rover.Whilst I accept hosses were there before cars, I still think it's wrong to take an uncontrollable "vehicle" on the road.
DocJock said:
Sounds like they need to take some responsibility for exposing an animal upset by normal road traffic to road traffic conditions...
What these w
ers (generally) don't seem to grasp is they can hear you coming a long way off and have warning. So they should have time to be able to get Dobbin under control.If they can't they shouldn't be there.That statement will probably stir up a hornets' nest. I always show respect to other road users and I walk my dogs on the road (never on a lead). They are always under control when a car gets to me. A road means cars and the associated risks.Train your horses and concentrate on what you are doing, the same as all other road users have to do FFS.
I can never understand the selfish arrogance of a lot of these t
s.Rant over
DocJock said:
Sounds like they need to take some responsibility for exposing an animal upset by normal road traffic to road traffic conditions...
In fairness a cerbera blatting is somewhat out of the norm in terms of scaring a horse. Looking back in my 'slow-mo' memory (as these things tend to be on reflection) the lead rider managed to wave her arm and mouth 'slow down' whilst the rear rider was able to give hand gestures - they can't have been that close to toppling. The thing is, I was mouthing "sorry", pulling over, and doing my best to not frighten the animals further, but I was in a position where it was literally choosing the best of a few non-optimal outcomes - I do feel guilty about this though.I rekon I have a good idea of which house/farm they'll have come from. I'm going to drop around a bottle of wine and offer apologies - see if it can sort roaduser karma.
It is a weird one though, anything else there I'd not have had a problem, but two lunging horses & your options are not as simple as when you come accross a rider/car etc.. as the act of stopping itself could be the thing to cause the accident.....
stuthemong said:
DocJock said:
Sounds like they need to take some responsibility for exposing an animal upset by normal road traffic to road traffic conditions...
In fairness a cerbera blatting is somewhat out of the norm in terms of scaring a horse. Looking back in my 'slow-mo' memory (as these things tend to be on reflection) the lead rider managed to wave her arm and mouth 'slow down' whilst the rear rider was able to give hand gestures - they can't have been that close to toppling. The thing is, I was mouthing "sorry", pulling over, and doing my best to not frighten the animals further, but I was in a position where it was literally choosing the best of a few non-optimal outcomes - I do feel guilty about this though.I rekon I have a good idea of which house/farm they'll have come from. I'm going to drop around a bottle of wine and offer apologies - see if it can sort roaduser karma.
It is a weird one though, anything else there I'd not have had a problem, but two lunging horses & your options are not as simple as when you come accross a rider/car etc.. as the act of stopping itself could be the thing to cause the accident.....
Shaw Tarse said:
DocJock said:
Sounds like they need to take some responsibility for exposing an animal upset by normal road traffic to road traffic conditions...
I know this is in AD, so maybe going off topic, but this does peeve me. I was talking to somone who is quite happy to ride a skittish horse on public roads. She said it will rear up, spin & kick out at passing cars. She admitted to catching a stirrup on the side of a Land Rover.Whilst I accept hosses were there before cars, I still think it's wrong to take an uncontrollable "vehicle" on the road.
I've no issues with horses, but some situations are unavoidable. I've had something similar happen, driving along an nsl at 60 to find a pair of horses with no hi-viz around a corner, of course you could stop in time if needs be, but any sort of evasive actions seems to upset most riders so I tend to dip the clutch to lower engine noise, brake firmly, but not sharply and go as wide as possible.
You can do as much as possible to be courteous, but if they ride on an nsl road, they should expect a few close calls.
You can do as much as possible to be courteous, but if they ride on an nsl road, they should expect a few close calls.
tenex said:
DocJock said:
Sounds like they need to take some responsibility for exposing an animal upset by normal road traffic to road traffic conditions...
1. What these wers (generally) don't seem to grasp is they can hear you coming a long way off and have warning. So they should have time to be able to get Dobbin under control.2. If they can't they shouldn't be there.
2. And again.
If they can't control their nags then it's their lookout.
I am surprised that nobody thinks you should have braked more. If you were indeed able to stop in the distance you could see, I suggest it would have better to have reduced the speed to about 10 mph. Your car makes anough noise anyway, I cannot see a bit of a brake squeak aggravating the situation.
I think it is great that you recognise that you upset other road users and want to find a way to apologise.
I think it is great that you recognise that you upset other road users and want to find a way to apologise.
I disagree with the last eight words. I am firmly in the heebeegeetee/tenex/DocJock camp on this matter - if they can't control the horses on the road they shouldn't be there in the first place.
Just as someone who can't control a car on the road shouldn't be there.
Unfortunately, while being out of control of a car on the road can lead to the loss of one's licence, there is no similar sanction which can be brought against dangerous equestrians - there is no "horse licence" to be taken away.
It is entirely possible to train a horse so that it does not freak out under much more alarming conditions than the mere approach of a loud engine - police horses are so trained. Such training, and an annual "horse MoT" to make sure the conditioning still holds, should be a legal requirement for taking a horse on the road.
The horse riders were creating a dangerous situation by quite knowingly bringing uncontrollable animals - sufficiently large and powerful animals to cause considerable damage - into a position where it is fully to be expected that things will happen to freak them out. It is them who should apologise, not the OP.
For the OP to apologise will merely increase the sense of arrogant self-righteousness which leads them to believe that creating a dangerous situation is acceptable and reduce the (admittedly slim) chances of them actually thinking about what they were doing and not doing it in future.
Just as someone who can't control a car on the road shouldn't be there.
Unfortunately, while being out of control of a car on the road can lead to the loss of one's licence, there is no similar sanction which can be brought against dangerous equestrians - there is no "horse licence" to be taken away.
It is entirely possible to train a horse so that it does not freak out under much more alarming conditions than the mere approach of a loud engine - police horses are so trained. Such training, and an annual "horse MoT" to make sure the conditioning still holds, should be a legal requirement for taking a horse on the road.
The horse riders were creating a dangerous situation by quite knowingly bringing uncontrollable animals - sufficiently large and powerful animals to cause considerable damage - into a position where it is fully to be expected that things will happen to freak them out. It is them who should apologise, not the OP.
For the OP to apologise will merely increase the sense of arrogant self-righteousness which leads them to believe that creating a dangerous situation is acceptable and reduce the (admittedly slim) chances of them actually thinking about what they were doing and not doing it in future.
Horse riders will not appreciate the right of a car driver to enthusiastically use a noisy engine/exhaust. Petrolheads will generally consider that the road belongs to them as they pay for it via fuel and car tax and it shouldn't have temperamental obstacles on it. You are never going to get any more than a grudging tolerance between these two groups.
Given that this is the case, I'd say that the ones owing the apology are the ones using the insulting gestures.............
Given that this is the case, I'd say that the ones owing the apology are the ones using the insulting gestures.............
You should have put the car into neutral and braked.
Foot off in gear just makes V8s and boxes whine and horses have different hearing sensitivity to us.
Loud car? Drop out of gear, brake as much as you can and coast past them, get clear and match gear to road speed getting away quietly.
Foot off in gear just makes V8s and boxes whine and horses have different hearing sensitivity to us.
Loud car? Drop out of gear, brake as much as you can and coast past them, get clear and match gear to road speed getting away quietly.
As both a driver and a horse rider I can understand both points of view, getting equally frustrated on occasion with thoughtless drivers and arrogant, rude riders!
First, let’s dispel a few misunderstandings:
• No rider in their right mind chooses to use a busy road if there is any other alternative available but unless you are lucky enough to keep a horse in a place with direct access to bridleways or green lanes, you have no choice.
• Yes, it is essential to train a horse to be as bomb proof as possible but we’re talking about animals with instincts, not machines, and they come with varying temperaments and ages. Police horses are very carefully selected and then trained by professionals to do a particular job, such as crowd control. Most amateur riders choose a horse or pony according to what they can afford and then ride it as and when they can for recreation. And while a horse might learn not to be startled by vehicles, it is still liable to shy away from something as innocuous (to a human) as a paper bag in the ditch. In other words, there will always be an element of unpredictability.
• The British Horse Society recommends that riders proceed two abreast on roads, thereby “forcing” drivers to slow down and not to squeeze past at high speed. This is particularly recommended practice with a young or flighty horse that can then go on the inside of the pair.
I always think it’s worth keeping in mind that the average horse weighs in at around ½ a ton. Having one land on the bonnet and come through the windscreen is a really, really bad idea! As someone once said, claiming that one had right of way is really a bit irrelevant if making the claim from a hospital bed.
In my view the only solution is for both riders and drivers to be a bit more intelligent when it comes to managing each other’s presence. I’m astonished when riders I know, including those who also drive cars, follow the BHS advice and ride two abreast on narrow lanes with blind bends. Personally, I avoid such roads if I possibly can. If I can’t, I strain my ears for approaching vehicles and keep as firm a control as possible until I know the driver has seen me.
When driving, it is of course always the case that one must be able to stop in the space you can see to be clear. Often enough I’ve come around a corner and found riders on the road and on occasion I’ve had to brake hard, earning disapproving looks, but I’ve always been able to stop without recourse to avoidance tactics.
Expect the unexpected. My wife was on our horse once and I was walking behind when a garden sprinkler system suddenly came on in the garden over the hedge. The horse thought a lion was about to get it and leapt six feet sideways. Luckily, the passing vehicle had left enough space.
Overall, tolerance and patience are the watchwords. Road users take many forms, from Ferraris to disability scooters and from dogs on leads to flocks of sheep being herded. All have the right to be there and a smile and a wave from all concerned go a long way to ensure peace and harmony!
First, let’s dispel a few misunderstandings:
• No rider in their right mind chooses to use a busy road if there is any other alternative available but unless you are lucky enough to keep a horse in a place with direct access to bridleways or green lanes, you have no choice.
• Yes, it is essential to train a horse to be as bomb proof as possible but we’re talking about animals with instincts, not machines, and they come with varying temperaments and ages. Police horses are very carefully selected and then trained by professionals to do a particular job, such as crowd control. Most amateur riders choose a horse or pony according to what they can afford and then ride it as and when they can for recreation. And while a horse might learn not to be startled by vehicles, it is still liable to shy away from something as innocuous (to a human) as a paper bag in the ditch. In other words, there will always be an element of unpredictability.
• The British Horse Society recommends that riders proceed two abreast on roads, thereby “forcing” drivers to slow down and not to squeeze past at high speed. This is particularly recommended practice with a young or flighty horse that can then go on the inside of the pair.
I always think it’s worth keeping in mind that the average horse weighs in at around ½ a ton. Having one land on the bonnet and come through the windscreen is a really, really bad idea! As someone once said, claiming that one had right of way is really a bit irrelevant if making the claim from a hospital bed.
In my view the only solution is for both riders and drivers to be a bit more intelligent when it comes to managing each other’s presence. I’m astonished when riders I know, including those who also drive cars, follow the BHS advice and ride two abreast on narrow lanes with blind bends. Personally, I avoid such roads if I possibly can. If I can’t, I strain my ears for approaching vehicles and keep as firm a control as possible until I know the driver has seen me.
When driving, it is of course always the case that one must be able to stop in the space you can see to be clear. Often enough I’ve come around a corner and found riders on the road and on occasion I’ve had to brake hard, earning disapproving looks, but I’ve always been able to stop without recourse to avoidance tactics.
Expect the unexpected. My wife was on our horse once and I was walking behind when a garden sprinkler system suddenly came on in the garden over the hedge. The horse thought a lion was about to get it and leapt six feet sideways. Luckily, the passing vehicle had left enough space.
Overall, tolerance and patience are the watchwords. Road users take many forms, from Ferraris to disability scooters and from dogs on leads to flocks of sheep being herded. All have the right to be there and a smile and a wave from all concerned go a long way to ensure peace and harmony!
Wot he said.stuthemong said:
I was exiting a 30 into NSL, long left hander, brilliant fun this one. Second gear up to about 50-55, grab third, car balanced nicely. Looking up the road, watching vanishing point open up, and rolling on the accelerator to take me to 60 *JUST* as I see some horses on the offside about 50m infront of me.....
So... you were travelling at 60mph through a corner (ok, exiting a corner), yet you only saw the horses when they were 50m in front of you? Now, maybe I have read the situation wrongly here, but... either you were travelling waaaay too fast for the vision that you had or you really don't look far enough ahead before travelling at or adding speed. What if the horse was on your side of the road? Do you think you could have stopped from 60, on a bend, in only 150ft?Something not right here. Maybe I'm missing something, or you are.
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