Moving from FWD to RWD
Discussion
Ill probably get a bit of ribbing here for asking but meh life to short not to ask questions and end up looking twice as silly when I bin it into a roundabout!
I'm looking at buying a RWD car soon, my driving experience to date involves only FWD cars and one short trip in a 4wd car. Ive driven a FWD car with a fair amount of power (1.8t with 210bhp) for a while and am now moving to a RWD car with (2.0na 160bhp).
Now I understand the basics, but what would be the main things to change about driving a FWD car to RWD? In the past it was only a case of lift off suddenly and the back will move (lift off oversteer). I will be doing some form of limit handling day with it to learn a bit more hopefully in July but any advice now would be appreciated.
I'm looking at buying a RWD car soon, my driving experience to date involves only FWD cars and one short trip in a 4wd car. Ive driven a FWD car with a fair amount of power (1.8t with 210bhp) for a while and am now moving to a RWD car with (2.0na 160bhp).
Now I understand the basics, but what would be the main things to change about driving a FWD car to RWD? In the past it was only a case of lift off suddenly and the back will move (lift off oversteer). I will be doing some form of limit handling day with it to learn a bit more hopefully in July but any advice now would be appreciated.
Unless you drive like an absolute twonk, you're not going to kill yourself and hundreds of children/kittens the first time you get to a roundabout...
You'll be surprised how rough you can be with rwd for nothing but forward progress to result... (So long as everything is ok mechanically with the car!)
You'll be surprised how rough you can be with rwd for nothing but forward progress to result... (So long as everything is ok mechanically with the car!)
I do wonder about some of these posts??? You see all those thousands of beemers and mercs being driven by reps/school run mums/etc......they all manage somehow!
I flit between FWD, RWD and 4WD and unless i'm driving stupid it makes sod all difference.....it certainly isnt going to put you backwards into a hedge unless you read up first!
I flit between FWD, RWD and 4WD and unless i'm driving stupid it makes sod all difference.....it certainly isnt going to put you backwards into a hedge unless you read up first!
Very very hard to "bin it" on RWD cars these days. Along with wider rear tyres, even on lower HP models and much better traction and vehicle stability control systems all help keep the car pointing in the right direction.
Unless your extremely reckless, mostly in the wet, like entering a corner/roundabout far too quickly (in which case a FWD car would under steer badly anyway) or gunning the throttle through the corner, you will be fine. You will know from advanced driving that car balance from braking, cornering and acceleration forces are key and should be balanced, especially through a corner.
Unless your extremely reckless, mostly in the wet, like entering a corner/roundabout far too quickly (in which case a FWD car would under steer badly anyway) or gunning the throttle through the corner, you will be fine. You will know from advanced driving that car balance from braking, cornering and acceleration forces are key and should be balanced, especially through a corner.
You're most likely to have a 'moment' gunning it out of a sharp bend or roundabout, in slippery conditions.
So treat this scenario with respect whilst you find the limits of your new car. Also be aware the rear tyres will wear faster than the fronts and the resulting imbalance of grip can contribute to oversteer in some cars (you can of course rotate the tyres to account for this).
HAVE FUN
So treat this scenario with respect whilst you find the limits of your new car. Also be aware the rear tyres will wear faster than the fronts and the resulting imbalance of grip can contribute to oversteer in some cars (you can of course rotate the tyres to account for this).
HAVE FUN
briers said:
Very very hard to "bin it" on RWD cars these days. Along with wider rear tyres, even on lower HP models and much better traction and vehicle stability control systems all help keep the car pointing in the right direction.
Unless your extremely reckless, mostly in the wet, like entering a corner/roundabout far too quickly (in which case a FWD car would under steer badly anyway) or gunning the throttle through the corner, you will be fine. You will know from advanced driving that car balance from braking, cornering and acceleration forces are key and should be balanced, especially through a corner.
Agreed. Unless you do something stupid, (or maybe choose a TVR Unless your extremely reckless, mostly in the wet, like entering a corner/roundabout far too quickly (in which case a FWD car would under steer badly anyway) or gunning the throttle through the corner, you will be fine. You will know from advanced driving that car balance from braking, cornering and acceleration forces are key and should be balanced, especially through a corner.
), rwd isn't an issue. As an old git i find myself totally puzzled about how rwd has become regarded as something that requires some sort of extra skill to get the best out of, or something to be worried about.Tbh, i reckon i would have been far more likely to kill myself in my old R5 GTurbo than i would in my current Boxster. The old hatchback moved around far more with its lift-off oversteer wheras my Boxster has just has loads of grip and grunt, meaning that you have to do something really wild to get it to slide around - something i haven't managed on the public roads yet.
Even my MX5 with 190bhp is a pussycat, though i suspect a limited slip diff could change that. But without, it just spins the power away via the inner wheel. Again, you have to deliberately provoke it, just driven properly it will never get you into trouble just because it is rwd.
Uncorrupted steering is nice though.
Hooli said:
Dave^ said:
Once you've driven it for a while and built up your confidence, you'll be hoofing it off roundabouts wondering why it wont go sideways... 
This is true cars are meant to go sideways if they are proper wheel drive & it feels so natural to do that it's wrong not to indulge 
There was me thinking that cars, whichever pair or all wheels driven, were truest if neutral.
Sorta, point the front where you want to go and the rear follows.
Oh well, one lives and learns.
WhoseGeneration said:
Hooli said:
Dave^ said:
Once you've driven it for a while and built up your confidence, you'll be hoofing it off roundabouts wondering why it wont go sideways...
This is true cars are meant to go sideways if they are proper wheel drive & it feels so natural to do that it's wrong not to indulge There was me thinking that cars, whichever pair or all wheels driven, were truest if neutral.
Sorta, point the front where you want to go and the rear follows.
Oh well, one lives and learns.
>checks forum<
>coughs & shuffles out quietly<
WhoseGeneration said:
Hooli said:
Dave^ said:
Once you've driven it for a while and built up your confidence, you'll be hoofing it off roundabouts wondering why it wont go sideways...
This is true cars are meant to go sideways if they are proper wheel drive & it feels so natural to do that it's wrong not to indulge There was me thinking that cars, whichever pair or all wheels driven, were truest if neutral.
Sorta, point the front where you want to go and the rear follows.
Oh well, one lives and learns.
Such compromise is easy even with a RWD road car and the Mazda falls into this category in as much as it understeers under most conditions. The more focused a car needs to be however (for instance when racing), the closer to neutral it will be by design, but it is then in danger of oversteering unpredictably. It is this design trait that can make a car undriveable near the limit.
This explains the difference between Jenson Button's 2008 Honda and his 2009 Brawn. When he was complaining about the Honda, he had genuine reason as he didn't know what the car might do at around 180 mph when he moved the steering wheel.
Having said that, a car such as the Mazda that can be deliberately provoked into reasonably benign and controllable oversteer can obviously be fun even if this usually makes it slower.
For some (myself included on occasion) Fun, rather than Speed Matters.
Martin A said:
Such compromise is easy even with a RWD road car and the Mazda falls into this category in as much as it understeers under most conditions.
For a good long period after my Mk1 had had it's alignment done, it suffered no understeer in any way shape or form. Or certainly, none that needed any response from any of the controls. In fact in the snow, it could oversteer in a straight line
. A bit of understeer would have been nice.Generally the suspension will be setup by the factory to provide understeer when decelerating or at a steady state. That way you can use the throttle to alter the balance of the car, and find the sweet spot where all four wheels are slipping evenly. Bascially this just entails tzurning the wheel and booting it. Letting off the acccelerator smoothly should get the rear of the car back into line relatively quickly.
To do this in a FWD car you need to have it set up to provide liftoff oversteer and then flick it into a corner which is dangerous, perhaps moreso than a RWD car because the corrective action (floor the accelerator) is counterintuitive.
To do this in a FWD car you need to have it set up to provide liftoff oversteer and then flick it into a corner which is dangerous, perhaps moreso than a RWD car because the corrective action (floor the accelerator) is counterintuitive.
I changed from fwd to rwd last sept. I was a little surprised when I had a couple of minor moments (nothing that the TC couldn't handle) when exiting some roundabouts at about 35-40mph in the wet.
You'll get used to it and take it as the norm like you currently do with understeer in a fwd.
Although this winter just gone was rather fun with 3litres or RWD fun
You'll get used to it and take it as the norm like you currently do with understeer in a fwd.
Although this winter just gone was rather fun with 3litres or RWD fun
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