"Feeding the wheel"
Discussion
I was just watching an older women park her Focus while waiting for my take away to be cooked and noticed while turning the wheels they were really "jerky" while turning.
I figured she must be feeding the wheel like the instructer taught me to do while learning to pass.
Thinking more about it I realised that it would be incredibly hard to drive on B roads in my car if I tried to do that now.
Does anyone advocate feeding the wheel, or has everyone come to their senses?
I just think if its possibly dangerous on the roads to do it, then why are we still being taught it as the way to drive.
I figured she must be feeding the wheel like the instructer taught me to do while learning to pass.
Thinking more about it I realised that it would be incredibly hard to drive on B roads in my car if I tried to do that now.
Does anyone advocate feeding the wheel, or has everyone come to their senses?
I just think if its possibly dangerous on the roads to do it, then why are we still being taught it as the way to drive.
Edited by The Hitman on Saturday 1st May 18:23
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Still taught to 'feed' the wheel as a police driver, the reason being that you always have one hand firmly on the steering.
It is very possible to drive progressively using that technique.
I use a combination of feeding plus having one hand at 9 or 3 (on the wheel not in relation to me) so I have a firm grip of the steering wheel plus know how far the wheels are off-centre.It is very possible to drive progressively using that technique.
The Hitman said:
I figured she must be feeding the wheel like the instructer taught me to do while learning to pass.
Thinking more about it I realised that it would be incredibly hard to drive on B roads in my car if I tried to do that now.
If she did it as she was taught you would not see the wheels starting and stopping - if done well the wheel moves continuously and fluidly.Thinking more about it I realised that it would be incredibly hard to drive on B roads in my car if I tried to do that now.
How did your instructor teach you to steer on B roads? Roadcraft, the manual of police driving, recommends steering with a fixed grip until the upgoing hand reaches the top of the wheel (12 o clock). That is sufficient for most B road driving. Most Roadcraft supporters are probably also happy to preposition the hands and then use fixed grip for slightly tighter turns.
The choice between pull/push (what you call feeding the wheel), rotational (hand over hand) and palming only becomes relevant for really tight and therefore slow speed corners, or for limit handling. So far as I am concerned any can work fine.
Sir John Whitmore banging on about this baby - causing a bit of a hoo-ha in the driver training industry as the DSA fully support him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/27...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/27...
CivicMan said:
Sir John Whitmore banging on about this baby - causing a bit of a hoo-ha in the driver training industry as the DSA fully support him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/27...
What's the hoo-ha ?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/27...
I have no problem using the push/pull method in NORMAL/PUBLIC ROAD driving situations (whether I'm manoeuvreing in a tight spot or taking bends/turning at a tight junction at a more brisk pace). I use it and have never had a situation that requires me to not be able to use it - proper technique and practise does make it easier, however I understand that bad habits are also hard to break. Just my opinion.
MikePCG said:
I have no problem using the push/pull method in NORMAL/PUBLIC ROAD driving situations (whether I'm manoeuvreing in a tight spot or taking bends/turning at a tight junction at a more brisk pace). I use it and have never had a situation that requires me to not be able to use it - proper technique and practise does make it easier, however I understand that bad habits are also hard to break. Just my opinion.
I agree completely. The drivers who complain about push-pull steering usually don't use the proper technique. I have used it for over 40 years of driving. As a relatively new IAM observer (taking the theory and practical qualification tests later this month) I advocate it for all the associates I assist in preparing for their IAM test.What the OP may be describing is an elderly lady struggle to turn the steering while parking.
So she was probably pushing and pulling at the same time, something I have often witnessed with the elderly, which gives the jerky wheel movement.
Some cars, even with power steering are difficult for the elderly to manoeuvre.
So should we ban everybody who can't "Do it Properly"??
I doubt even we would advocate that?
A Police Office neighbour once said to me that the rules of the road are a catch-all.
His view was that everybody has the right to obtain the privilege of driving, even old ladies popping down to the Church or the supermarket.
So it's give and take and be courteous to other road users and it makes a difference.
As to the point about push-pull per se?
Been driving safely for a long time without it, but occasionally it makes sense at slow speeds, but I never "unwind" as that just does not feel natural.
After all, manufactures spend a lot of money making cars self-centre and steer geometrically correctly.
And lets be honest its on the bottom of my list of bad driving habits I see!
So she was probably pushing and pulling at the same time, something I have often witnessed with the elderly, which gives the jerky wheel movement.
Some cars, even with power steering are difficult for the elderly to manoeuvre.
So should we ban everybody who can't "Do it Properly"??
I doubt even we would advocate that?
A Police Office neighbour once said to me that the rules of the road are a catch-all.
His view was that everybody has the right to obtain the privilege of driving, even old ladies popping down to the Church or the supermarket.
So it's give and take and be courteous to other road users and it makes a difference.
As to the point about push-pull per se?
Been driving safely for a long time without it, but occasionally it makes sense at slow speeds, but I never "unwind" as that just does not feel natural.
After all, manufactures spend a lot of money making cars self-centre and steer geometrically correctly.
And lets be honest its on the bottom of my list of bad driving habits I see!
As said above, if done properly then pull-push should result in very smooth and controlled steering. For turns not requiring much lock, as with the majority of bends on B roads such as mentioned by the OP, more accuracy and safety can be achieved by using fixed input steering (where the hands stay where they are).
The most common cause of problems with pull-push is simply trying to shuffle too much; try larger sweeps.
The most common cause of problems with pull-push is simply trying to shuffle too much; try larger sweeps.
I think push pull is a very difficult technique to master, which is why most people move away from it when its no longer required of them to use it.
Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
crisisjez said:
I think push pull is a very difficult technique to master, which is why most people move away from it when its no longer required of them to use it.
Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
I don't mean to be pedantic with my semantics, but I presume you're doing "pull push", not "push pull". Push pull is a very unnatural movement for the arms to do, whereas pull push feels completely natural to me (that doesn't mean it'll feel natural to everyone though, because everyone's different).Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
Amongst others, John Whitmore has written a few good columns criticizing pull push, I even discussed it with him once. Personally I like it for road cars taking tight turns, although my strong preference is for fixed input, it's just not always possible.
RobM77 said:
The most common cause of problems with pull-push is simply trying to shuffle too much; try larger sweeps.
Yup. My mother shuffles the wheel too much, and tends to be jerky (though she only learnt a year or so ago, so I cut her a bit of slack 
). It's a fault of the application of the technique, not the technique per se.RobM77 said:
crisisjez said:
I think push pull is a very difficult technique to master, which is why most people move away from it when its no longer required of them to use it.
Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
I don't mean to be pedantic with my semantics, but I presume you're doing "pull push", not "push pull". Push pull is a very unnatural movement for the arms to do, whereas pull push feels completely natural to me (that doesn't mean it'll feel natural to everyone though, because everyone's different).Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
Amongst others, John Whitmore has written a few good columns criticizing pull push, I even discussed it with him once. Personally I like it for road cars taking tight turns, although my strong preference is for fixed input, it's just not always possible.
Being pedantic
Maybe I'm left handed and use the other half of my brain;)
in reality twas a slip of the keyboard
crisisjez said:
RobM77 said:
crisisjez said:
I think push pull is a very difficult technique to master, which is why most people move away from it when its no longer required of them to use it.
Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
I don't mean to be pedantic with my semantics, but I presume you're doing "pull push", not "push pull". Push pull is a very unnatural movement for the arms to do, whereas pull push feels completely natural to me (that doesn't mean it'll feel natural to everyone though, because everyone's different).Its neither better or worse than any other technique when done correctly, its also not the only one available, so its a shame, and rather narrow minded, that there is the possibility that you may fail a test for not using it.
Amongst others, John Whitmore has written a few good columns criticizing pull push, I even discussed it with him once. Personally I like it for road cars taking tight turns, although my strong preference is for fixed input, it's just not always possible.
Being pedantic
Maybe I'm left handed and use the other half of my brain;)
in reality twas a slip of the keyboard
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