Indicating at mini roundabouts/T junctions

[CardShark]

Not too sure if this post is about 'advanced' driving or just general Highway Code stuff but I thought I'd pose the question anyway....

Over the last few years my local Council has placed mini roundabouts at some busy T junctions, presumably in the name of aiding trafic flow. Whenever I've driven across the top of the T (from left to right as you'd look at the letter itself) I've always made a point of indicating left to inform other road users that I'd be taking the first exit even though I'm physically driving in a straight line and wouldn't have indicated had it still been a T junction. I've followed drivers under instruction and Police cars and, AFAICR, they've never indicated and neither have 95% of other road users.

Surely indicating is the correct way to proceed??

[vonhosen]

CardShark said:

Not too sure if this post is about 'advanced' driving or just general Highway Code stuff but I thought I'd pose the question anyway....

Over the last few years my local Council has placed mini roundabouts at some busy T junctions, presumably in the name of aiding trafic flow. Whenever I've driven across the top of the T (from left to right as you'd look at the letter itself) I've always made a point of indicating left to inform other road users that I'd be taking the first exit even though I'm physically driving in a straight line and wouldn't have indicated had it still been a T junction. I've followed drivers under instruction and Police cars and, AFAICR, they've never indicated and neither have 95% of other road users.

Surely indicating is the correct way to proceed??

I'd be one of the 5% then.

[CardShark]

By the way, I am aware of the other thread 'Officer said always, always indicate'

[7mike]

If this reasures the driver of an on-coming vehicle that you're not turning then you have done them a favour & they can keep going. If by doing so they then block traffic to your right then you've also done yourself a favor & can keep going. I may indicate in these circumstances but the signal is of little use to following traffic IMO. Also look out for junctions etc on the left just after the roundabout & be prepared to knock off the signal quickly.

[mrmr96]

7mike said:

If this reasures the driver of an on-coming vehicle that you're not turning then you have done them a favour & they can keep going. If by doing so they then block traffic to your right then you've also done yourself a favor & can keep going. I may indicate in these circumstances but the signal is of little use to following traffic IMO. Also look out for junctions etc on the left just after the roundabout & be prepared to knock off the signal quickly.

Exactly.

The general rule on indicators is "If there's someone who will benefit, then use them. If there's not, then don't."

[CardShark]

mrmr96 said:

The general rule on indicators is "If there's someone who will benefit, then use them. If there's not, then don't."

This is how I see it, I just can't get my head around the fact that pretty much everyone else seems to treat the roundabout as if it wasn't there and that it was still a T junction.

[Flanders.]

CardShark said:

mrmr96 said:

The general rule on indicators is "If there's someone who will benefit, then use them. If there's not, then don't."

This is how I see it, I just can't get my head around the fact that pretty much everyone else seems to treat the roundabout as if it wasn't there and that it was still a T junction.

We have the same here. I signal left in the same situation, I've never, ever, ever seen anyone do it but me

[mrmr96]

Flanders. said:

CardShark said:

mrmr96 said:

The general rule on indicators is "If there's someone who will benefit, then use them. If there's not, then don't."

This is how I see it, I just can't get my head around the fact that pretty much everyone else seems to treat the roundabout as if it wasn't there and that it was still a T junction.

We have the same here. I signal left in the same situation, I've never, ever, ever seen anyone do it but me

Very few people do it because quite often they are either lazy or ignorant when it comes to these things.

[Syndrome]

If you're going straight ahead there should be no need to use your indicators. However in reality it's probably a good idea to help out the majority of pan faced specials that seem to clog our road system up, by giving a courtesy indicator. It saves any hassles when they inevitably can't grasp the concept and smash your car up in the ensuing carnage.

[SMB]

On a related topic, why do people going across the top of the T assume they have right of way and fail to stop even when the roundabout is clearly posted! I include in this the local bus company drivers wo believe they have the bigger vehicle therefore it's their right of way. At least with a T junction people knew where they stood, now it's a lottery.

[10 Pence Short]

If you're turning then indicate the turn, but I was recently told in the run up to the re-test that I didn't need to indicate the exit. They're usually so small they're effectively a crossroads with an alternating priority depending on who gets there first.

[deeen]

10 Pence Short said:

If you're turning then indicate the turn, but I was recently told in the run up to the re-test that I didn't need to indicate the exit. They're usually so small they're effectively a crossroads with an alternating priority depending on who gets there first.

I'm amazed at this, there's 2 within 400 yards of my house, I think they're roundabouts, so i indicate accordingly

[ScoobyChris]

deeen said:

I'm amazed at this, there's 2 within 400 yards of my house, I think they're roundabouts, so i indicate accordingly

Are people benenfitting from you signalling for the exit? On most mini-roundabouts (ie painted ones) you can see all the cars approaching the roundabout from your start position and there isn't a significant amount of room or time to be able to "signal your intention" to leave at the next exit before you actually leave. In these cases, I'd be treating them as a crossroads and signalling my intention on approach.

Where the roundabouts are larger, or approaches are obscured, I'd agree that signalling to exit is of more benefit.

Chris

[vonhosen]

ScoobyChris said:

deeen said:

I'm amazed at this, there's 2 within 400 yards of my house, I think they're roundabouts, so i indicate accordingly

Are people benenfitting from you signalling for the exit? On most mini-roundabouts (ie painted ones) you can see all the cars approaching the roundabout from your start position and there isn't a significant amount of room or time to be able to "signal your intention" to leave at the next exit before you actually leave. In these cases, I'd be treating them as a crossroads and signalling my intention on approach.

Where the roundabouts are larger, or approaches are obscured, I'd agree that signalling to exit is of more benefit.

Chris

In the OPs case there is, because it's a 'T'. There is in effect no left turn, so the left indicator doesn't have to be delayed because of the presence of one.

[CardShark]

I agree with the comment concerning people driving across the T from left to right thinking that they have right of way over those turning right from the right, seen that so many times. Have also been in the situation when 3 cars, myself included, would approach the roundabout at the same time and there's a moment of 'who goes first?', this isn't helped by the fact that a lot of people turning left from the right aren't indicating and when they're turning right I can't see their indication (as I approach the roundabout)!

In short (and based on my scenario) anyone travelling straight over left to right should indicate left, those from the right should indicate left or right (as these are their only physical turning options) and those travelling from ahead should indicate left if they're physically turning left or not at all if they're travelling straight over as there's no time to give an 'effective' signal.

Edited by CardShark on Thursday 18th February 10:17

[Ten Ninety]

Interesting one. I don't think I've ever signalled for 'straight on' when using a T-junction mini roundabout, yet if approaching from the other way I do tend to slow down and assume that the oncoming car might be turning across my path even if they are not signalling right. If they were signalling left like the OP, it should help me. However, I'm not sure I would 'trust' their left signal anyway, so would probably still assume they might be turning across me until their position and speed confirmed otherwise.

Nevertheless, I can see how it could help confirm what my actions are and I think I will adopt it myself from now on when there are oncoming cars who might benefit. Thanks for making me think about it!

[vonhosen]

CardShark said:

I agree with the comment concerning people driving across the T from left to right thinking that they have right of way over those turning right from the right, seen that so many times. Have also been in the situation when 3 cars, myself included, would approach the roundabout at the same time and there's a moment of 'who goes first?', this isn't helped by the fact that a lot of people turning left from the right aren't indicating and when they're turning right I can't see their indication (as I approach the roundabout)!

In short (and based on my scenario) anyone travelling straight over left to right should indicate left, those from the right should indicate left or right (as these are their only physical turning options) and those travelling from ahead should indicate left if they're physically turning left or not at all if they're travelling straight over as there's no time to give an 'effective' signal.

For those coming from the right they aren't the only turning options, they could circumnavigate & go back where they came from.

[deeen]

Ten Ninety said:

Interesting one. I don't think I've ever signalled for 'straight on' when using a T-junction mini roundabout, yet if approaching from the other way I do tend to slow down and assume that the oncoming car might be turning across my path even if they are not signalling right. If they were signalling left like the OP, it should help me. However, I'm not sure I would 'trust' their left signal anyway, so would probably still assume they might be turning across me until their position and speed confirmed otherwise.

Nevertheless, I can see how it could help confirm what my actions are and I think I will adopt it myself from now on when there are oncoming cars who might benefit. Thanks for making me think about it!

This is my point, because i see it as a roundabout, it's not "straight on", it's "first exit".

But now i think about it, scoobychris is right, I tend to indicate as I approach... but then I indicate left on the approach if I'm taking first exit at a big roundabout, also...

[waremark]

deeen said:

Ten Ninety said:

Interesting one. I don't think I've ever signalled for 'straight on' when using a T-junction mini roundabout, yet if approaching from the other way I do tend to slow down and assume that the oncoming car might be turning across my path even if they are not signalling right. If they were signalling left like the OP, it should help me. However, I'm not sure I would 'trust' their left signal anyway, so would probably still assume they might be turning across me until their position and speed confirmed otherwise.

Nevertheless, I can see how it could help confirm what my actions are and I think I will adopt it myself from now on when there are oncoming cars who might benefit. Thanks for making me think about it!

This is my point, because i see it as a roundabout, it's not "straight on", it's "first exit".

But now i think about it, scoobychris is right, I tend to indicate as I approach... but then I indicate left on the approach if I'm taking first exit at a big roundabout, also...

At a big roundabout, would you indicate left before entering the roundabout if the first exit which you are intending to take was at 12 o'clock?

I think it is helpful to indicate, and I do, but I do not think it is wrong not to indicate.

[waremark]

CardShark said:

I agree with the comment concerning people driving across the T from left to right thinking that they have right of way over those turning right from the right, seen that so many times.

What are the correct priorities in this situation? Does the first to reach the roundabout have priority, or should you give way to a driver to your right even if you have reached the roundabout before him? (I think the latter is the case).