Teaching a learner driver - advice required
Discussion
I'm currently teaching a family member to drive. We've done a few hours so far and things are looking good, however, its been over 10 years since I passed my test and I cant quite remember the "proper" way to do a few things:
1) When approaching a T junction with a give way marking at the end, do you have to stop, even if you can see it's clear for miles around?
2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
I know these are simple questions but these are the sort of things that I'm sure most of us have forgotten having learned to drive once we've learned to pass the test
I just dont want to teach her any bad habits.
1) When approaching a T junction with a give way marking at the end, do you have to stop, even if you can see it's clear for miles around?
2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
I know these are simple questions but these are the sort of things that I'm sure most of us have forgotten having learned to drive once we've learned to pass the test
I just dont want to teach her any bad habits.For a driving test
1) If you have to give way then I would suggest you come down to a crawl at the very least
2)you dont have to stop at clear roundabouts, but again slow down to make sure its safe
3) i was taught NOT to change down through all the gears, instead go for a crawl by braking and then shift down from 4th to 1st when you are almost stopped
4) slow down on approach regardless
1) If you have to give way then I would suggest you come down to a crawl at the very least
2)you dont have to stop at clear roundabouts, but again slow down to make sure its safe
3) i was taught NOT to change down through all the gears, instead go for a crawl by braking and then shift down from 4th to 1st when you are almost stopped
4) slow down on approach regardless
There is 'fashion' of a sort in the driving school arena; perfectly safe practices may now be considered bad habits, and you risk passing them on. At the end of the day they have to pass a test - get them some professional teaching from someone who knows what the test demands. Be a passenger with them for 'extra' hours.
Goochie said:
I'm currently teaching a family member to drive. We've done a few hours so far and things are looking good, however, its been over 10 years since I passed my test and I cant quite remember the "proper" way to do a few things:
1) When approaching a T junction with a give way marking at the end, do you have to stop, even if you can see it's clear for miles around?
2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
I know these are simple questions but these are the sort of things that I'm sure most of us have forgotten having learned to drive once we've learned to pass the test I just dont want to teach her any bad habits.
1) No, stopping when it's clear would result in a driving fault. If you can see, keep going.1) When approaching a T junction with a give way marking at the end, do you have to stop, even if you can see it's clear for miles around?
2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
I know these are simple questions but these are the sort of things that I'm sure most of us have forgotten having learned to drive once we've learned to pass the test
I just dont want to teach her any bad habits.2) As above
3) Brake to a stop in the gear you're in. Handbrake on, into neutral and wait. If the light's change on approach select an appropriate gear, clutch up and off you go.
4) It makes sense to start easing off as you approach a red light, this shows you've noticed the lights are there, they are red, and they apply to you. Not to mention makes for a smoother drive.
It's worth adding that you need to make sure your pupil is getting their speed down in plenty of time for hazards so they can come off the brakes, select a gear, and get the clutch up, all in a straight line so they've then only got to worry about the steering and nothing else.
Good luck
Goochie said:
1) When approaching a T junction with a give way marking at the end, do you have to stop, even if you can see it's clear for miles around?
2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
Passed my test first time with 1 minor in 2008, so this is my experience of the nearly current procedure you're taught for the test.2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
1. Slow down, if you can clearly see that there's no cars/pedestrians/cyclists then you don't need to stop, however if you can't 100%, should always stop
2. Same
3. I was taught to brake and then shift into 2nd and then stop, but not to go through all the gears. Clutching in at the time to keep the drive the smoothest for passenger and driver.
4. I was taught to always slow for traffic lights that are red as if you are going to stop, and if it's green to slow down slightly as you are approaching the light so you can stop if it goes red, but when you are close enough to not be able to stop if it changes to red, to speed back up to the limit.
Needless to say I did all of the above and would have passed with no minors if it wasn't for something completely out of my control.
Goochie said:
I'm currently teaching a family member to drive. We've done a few hours so far and things are looking good, however, its been over 10 years since I passed my test and I cant quite remember the "proper" way to do a few things:
1) When approaching a T junction with a give way marking at the end, do you have to stop, even if you can see it's clear for miles around?
2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
I know these are simple questions but these are the sort of things that I'm sure most of us have forgotten having learned to drive once we've learned to pass the test I just dont want to teach her any bad habits.
I've just passed my extended retest and had a couple of lessons beforehand to check things like the above.1) When approaching a T junction with a give way marking at the end, do you have to stop, even if you can see it's clear for miles around?
2) As per number 1, but for a roundabout?
3) When driving along in 4th or 5th and you're approaching a T junction or lights where you know you have to stop, are you supposed to change down as you approach? Or do you leave it until the last moment before dropping the clutch, having used the brakes to slow down? (gears for go, brakes for slow etc.)
4) If you see a red traffic light ahead , should you continue at the speed you're doing and slow as you approach? Or should you do what most of us do and ease off a bit in the hope it'll change to green by the time you get there (effectively slowing down a bit sooner)
I know these are simple questions but these are the sort of things that I'm sure most of us have forgotten having learned to drive once we've learned to pass the test
I just dont want to teach her any bad habits.1) I would approach all give way T junctions with the intention of stopping, unless you have a really clear view of every approach. Even then, I worked on the basis of stopping anyway unless I was 110% certain to avoid any situations developing. Especially as a learner, adding the 'should I stop or shouldn't I?' into the equation is only going to make things harder.
2) At roundabouts there less of a presumption of a need to stop if the view of the junction is good- in fact if you stop at an obviously clear roundabout entrance you might get marked down on the test.
3) You're supposed to brake as you approach and clutch in once you're just above the idle limit for the gear you're in. Then select the gear you're going to move off in. Try to avoid coasting, though. No changing down the gears or using the gears to slow you. Block changes up or down is the current thinking- ie. 3rd to 5th etc.
4) Irrespective of the colour, slow down on the approach and be prepared to stop. Green is most dangerous, as it's liable to change any moment and the driver will assume complete priority even though someone else coming from another direction might not conform to the signal stopping them. If the light is red, don't approach it intending to crawl until it changes- the examiner won't like it.
I managed my test with no minors, which was remarkable considering 13 years and 600,000+ miles of bad habits beforehand.
Edited by 10 Pence Short on Monday 15th February 12:53
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/learners.pdf
You may find the above useful.
As for the first point, give way at junctions. Most T-junctions negotiated will be 'closed' i.e. the view into the new road will not open up until quite close to or at the broken lines. I would suggest sticking to the DSA formula (MSPSL) Mirrors (centre followed by left or right depending on intended direction at the junction)Signal, Position (common error for left turns is to position too far from curb, for right turns up to but not over the centre line-watch out for all those 'experienced drivers' who will cut the corner when turning into your road), Speed (slow enough to select first before stopping, as a general guide selecting first at the triangle on the road), Look (as the clutch is eased back up - right/left/right). If clear keep the clutch coming up, bit more gas & go. Parked cars in the new road can make this even more difficult so practicing clutch control to creep forwards is an important skill to develop.
At open junctions (where earlier views are possible) a higher gear may be suitable, & this generaly includes roundabouts (plan to stop, but look to go). Hope this helps. Good luck!
You may find the above useful.
As for the first point, give way at junctions. Most T-junctions negotiated will be 'closed' i.e. the view into the new road will not open up until quite close to or at the broken lines. I would suggest sticking to the DSA formula (MSPSL) Mirrors (centre followed by left or right depending on intended direction at the junction)Signal, Position (common error for left turns is to position too far from curb, for right turns up to but not over the centre line-watch out for all those 'experienced drivers' who will cut the corner when turning into your road), Speed (slow enough to select first before stopping, as a general guide selecting first at the triangle on the road), Look (as the clutch is eased back up - right/left/right). If clear keep the clutch coming up, bit more gas & go. Parked cars in the new road can make this even more difficult so practicing clutch control to creep forwards is an important skill to develop.
At open junctions (where earlier views are possible) a higher gear may be suitable, & this generaly includes roundabouts (plan to stop, but look to go). Hope this helps. Good luck!
I'm currently supervising my girlfriend learning to drive, and she's having regular lessons with a recognised and reputable driving school. There are many other things I'd like to add to the above that have changed since I passed my test in 1994. I can't think of them all, but off the top of my head and as a selection: my girlfriend's been taught to turn before passing oncoming traffic at a crossroads (I was taught to pass then turn, and I believe this changed in recent years); she doesn't appear to have been taught road positioning for turning (so near centreline for turning right, or keep left before turning left); dry steering is now encouraged during turns in the road etc (I was taught never to even contemplate it!); the speed limit appears to be a target, whereas in 1994 it was just that, a limit; and finally she's been taught to wait at traffic lights in first gear with the clutch down, whereas I was taught that for safety and mechanical reasons it was best to put the car into neutral and take my feet off the pedals (which makes perfect sense to me, especially if one's handbrake is weak).
Based on all these changes people have listed, I would pay for a lesson every now and then with an instructor just to keep on top of things. The instructor will know what's needed to pass the test now (I know people should be taught to drive, not just pass a test, but you've got to pass the test whichever way you look at it!). The OP can then still take an active part in supervising between lessons.
Based on all these changes people have listed, I would pay for a lesson every now and then with an instructor just to keep on top of things. The instructor will know what's needed to pass the test now (I know people should be taught to drive, not just pass a test, but you've got to pass the test whichever way you look at it!). The OP can then still take an active part in supervising between lessons.
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 16th February 12:49
RobM77 said:
she doesn't appear to have been taught road positioning for turning (so near centreline for turning right, or keep left before turning left); dry steering is now encouraged during turns in the road etc (I was taught never to even contemplate it!); the speed limit appears to be a target, whereas in my day it was just that, a limit; and finally she's been taught to wait at traffic lights in first gear with the clutch down, whereas I was taught that for safety and mechanical reasons it was best to put the car into neutral and take my feet off the pedals (which makes perfect sense to me, especially if one's handbrake is weak).
The instructor can't be a very good one then! Dry steering is frowned upon, and she should have been taught road positioning. But the speed limit thing and traffic lights thing are what is taught now, so that drivers can make progress (although with a little bit of observation you don't need to keep it in first at the lights).
james_gt3rs said:
RobM77 said:
she doesn't appear to have been taught road positioning for turning (so near centreline for turning right, or keep left before turning left); dry steering is now encouraged during turns in the road etc (I was taught never to even contemplate it!); the speed limit appears to be a target, whereas in my day it was just that, a limit; and finally she's been taught to wait at traffic lights in first gear with the clutch down, whereas I was taught that for safety and mechanical reasons it was best to put the car into neutral and take my feet off the pedals (which makes perfect sense to me, especially if one's handbrake is weak).
The instructor can't be a very good one then! Dry steering is frowned upon, and she should have been taught road positioning. But the speed limit thing and traffic lights thing are what is taught now, so that drivers can make progress (although with a little bit of observation you don't need to keep it in first at the lights).
The speed limit thing confuses me. Surely one should be able to demonstrate to the examiner that one has thought properly about the appropriate speed for the conditions, and merely capped it at the posted speed limit? Nowadays out of town this usually means driving at the speed limit because limits are stupid these days, but in town I'm frequently down below 30mph on city streets because of hazards etc; likewise on the few remaining 60mph stretches on B and A roads.
RobM77 said:
I'm currently supervising my girlfriend learning to drive, and there are many other things I'd like to add to the above that have changed since I passed my test in 1994. I can't think of them all, but off the top of my head and as a selection: my girlfriend's been taught to turn before passing oncoming traffic at a crossroads (I was taught to pass then turn, and I believe this changed in recent years); she doesn't appear to have been taught road positioning for turning (so near centreline for turning right, or keep left before turning left); dry steering is now encouraged during turns in the road etc (I was taught never to even contemplate it!); the speed limit appears to be a target, whereas in my day it was just that, a limit; and finally she's been taught to wait at traffic lights in first gear with the clutch down, whereas I was taught that for safety and mechanical reasons it was best to put the car into neutral and take my feet off the pedals (which makes perfect sense to me, especially if one's handbrake is weak).
Personally, I would pay for a lesson every now and then with an instructor just to keep on top of things. The instructor will know what's needed to pass the test (I know people should be taught to drive, not just pass a test, but you've got to pass the test whichever way you look at it!). The OP can then still take an active part in supervising between lessons.
The crossroads navigation I was taught was to watch what the person is doing, if they're going for an offside, you do so too, and if they're going for a nearside, you do so too. Both are correct.Personally, I would pay for a lesson every now and then with an instructor just to keep on top of things. The instructor will know what's needed to pass the test (I know people should be taught to drive, not just pass a test, but you've got to pass the test whichever way you look at it!). The OP can then still take an active part in supervising between lessons.
I was also told road positioning for turning, keep left for a left hand turn, right for a right hand turn. I get so irritated at a T junction if a person sits bang in the middle to turn right when I'm going left and there's space for both cars...
Dry steering is most definitly not encouraged, at least by my instructor.
I did get taught to stay as near to the limit as is safe, and in the test if the road conditions permit you doing 30 in a 30 and you only do 20 you'll get a minor for hesitation, as they assume you aren't confident enough.
The stopping at traffic lights, at first I was taught to stop in first with clutch down, but that was until you're confident enough to use the handbrake and take feet off the pedals.
maurauth said:
RobM77 said:
I'm currently supervising my girlfriend learning to drive, and there are many other things I'd like to add to the above that have changed since I passed my test in 1994. I can't think of them all, but off the top of my head and as a selection: my girlfriend's been taught to turn before passing oncoming traffic at a crossroads (I was taught to pass then turn, and I believe this changed in recent years); she doesn't appear to have been taught road positioning for turning (so near centreline for turning right, or keep left before turning left); dry steering is now encouraged during turns in the road etc (I was taught never to even contemplate it!); the speed limit appears to be a target, whereas in my day it was just that, a limit; and finally she's been taught to wait at traffic lights in first gear with the clutch down, whereas I was taught that for safety and mechanical reasons it was best to put the car into neutral and take my feet off the pedals (which makes perfect sense to me, especially if one's handbrake is weak).
Personally, I would pay for a lesson every now and then with an instructor just to keep on top of things. The instructor will know what's needed to pass the test (I know people should be taught to drive, not just pass a test, but you've got to pass the test whichever way you look at it!). The OP can then still take an active part in supervising between lessons.
The crossroads navigation I was taught was to watch what the person is doing, if they're going for an offside, you do so too, and if they're going for a nearside, you do so too. Both are correct.Personally, I would pay for a lesson every now and then with an instructor just to keep on top of things. The instructor will know what's needed to pass the test (I know people should be taught to drive, not just pass a test, but you've got to pass the test whichever way you look at it!). The OP can then still take an active part in supervising between lessons.
I was also told road positioning for turning, keep left for a left hand turn, right for a right hand turn. I get so irritated at a T junction if a person sits bang in the middle to turn right when I'm going left and there's space for both cars...
Dry steering is most definitly not encouraged, at least by my instructor.
I did get taught to stay as near to the limit as is safe, and in the test if the road conditions permit you doing 30 in a 30 and you only do 20 you'll get a minor for hesitation, as they assume you aren't confident enough.
The stopping at traffic lights, at first I was taught to stop in first with clutch down, but that was until you're confident enough to use the handbrake and take feet off the pedals.
Martin A said:
Hi All
Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
What, the DSA wants you to dry steer now? Why?james_gt3rs said:
The instructor can't be a very good one then! Dry steering is frowned upon...
By some without knowledge of change in practice perhaps, but not by the Driving Standards Agency. Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
Hi All
What, the DSA wants you to dry steer now? Why?Nowhere was it mentioned that the DSA wants you to dry steer, it just isn't frowned upon and is no longer marked as a fault. The DSA have probably moved with the times and realised that the minor extra amount of wear and tear on steering components is not worth worrying about.
What people often fail to realise is that the test is the bare minimum that is regarded as safe for driving out on the road. It doesn't mean that people will be competent in all situations. That is then down to their own judgement or that of their employers if driving while at work.
I frequently get people a licence in a week or so but if they tell me that they need it for a job I suggest that their employer ensure that they are assessed on typical work duties before carrying them out independently. Otherwise the employers may be liable if the driver does not have the experience or training to deal with the situation. This is especially important in the recent slippery road conditions.
Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
maurauth said:
Martin A said:
james_gt3rs said:
The instructor can't be a very good one then! Dry steering is frowned upon...
By some without knowledge of change in practice perhaps, but not by the Driving Standards Agency... What people often fail to realise is that the test is the bare minimum that is regarded as safe for driving out on the road. It doesn't mean that people will be competent in all situations. That is then down to their own judgement or that of their employers if driving while at work.
I frequently get people a licence in a week or so but if they tell me that they need it for a job I suggest that their employer ensure that they are assessed on typical work duties before carrying them out independently. Otherwise the employers may be liable if the driver does not have the experience or training to deal with the situation. This is especially important in the recent slippery road conditions.
Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
maurauth said:
The crossroads navigation I was taught was to watch what the person is doing, if they're going for an offside, you do so too, and if they're going for a nearside, you do so too. Both are correct.
Highway Code says Para 181: 'There is a choice of two methods. (a) Turn right side to right side; keep the other vehicle on your right and turn behind it. This is generally the safer method as you have a clear view of any approaching traffic .....'So offside to offside is the preferred method if the road layout and other traffic permits.
waremark said:
So offside to offside is the preferred method if the road layout and other traffic permits.
Problem is, where I currently live, many lane markings say nearside to nearside, often without a right turn only traffic light.Which means this has become the norm for most drivers, such that when I attempt to go offside to offside at unmarked junctions, other drivers think I'm wrong.
Those who write the rules really have not got "Joined up Government", have they?
I went through this last year with my daughter.
My advice is the same as others have already said, as in, let the family member have lessons with a professional adi, and you supervise them doing what the adi is teaching them, as practise, thus reducing the overall cost to the family member.
Although I believe most reasonable drivers would pass a retest, the things expected of a complete novice are very different, and generally for good reasons.
My advice is the same as others have already said, as in, let the family member have lessons with a professional adi, and you supervise them doing what the adi is teaching them, as practise, thus reducing the overall cost to the family member.
Although I believe most reasonable drivers would pass a retest, the things expected of a complete novice are very different, and generally for good reasons.
I passed after my second attempt in December last year, with four minors. If she hasn't done the hazard perception it can be difficult even if you know your stuff - I got 48/50 for the multiple choice first time but a number of marks off the hazard perception. Next time I did it, passing meant clicking for every single pedestrian spotted at the side of the road.
As for the test, some examiners try to unsettle you - I had an emergency stop and immediately after had to reverse around the corner. On the test I passed, I reversed down and up over a drain and actually swore because I thought I had hit the kerb. I hadn't, of course, but I didn't expect it. It was easier the second time round than the first, nothing really prepares you for it like giving the test a go.
Also, I'd strongly recommend Pass Plus. I've got a far better idea of the roads in this country after doing it and so I know exactly what to expect from them. Plus it means I won't ever be a motorway-phobic like my mother (like that was ever going to happen anyway!)
As for the test, some examiners try to unsettle you - I had an emergency stop and immediately after had to reverse around the corner. On the test I passed, I reversed down and up over a drain and actually swore because I thought I had hit the kerb. I hadn't, of course, but I didn't expect it. It was easier the second time round than the first, nothing really prepares you for it like giving the test a go.
Also, I'd strongly recommend Pass Plus. I've got a far better idea of the roads in this country after doing it and so I know exactly what to expect from them. Plus it means I won't ever be a motorway-phobic like my mother (like that was ever going to happen anyway!)
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