An odd encounter last night....
Discussion
I found myself in an unusual situation last night, and after mulling over my reactions I thought I'd seek opinions on how I dealt with it.
I was travelling Westbound on the M61 towards the curved flyover where it merges with the Northbound M6, at which point there are only two lanes.
As I approached the flyover in lane 1, I noticed a car in lane 2 in the distance. There was no reason for it to be in lane 2 as there were no vehicles around it. I then realised that I was catching it up quite quickly. I slowed to match its speed, and was alarmed to find myself doing 40mph. Still in lane 1, but keeping far enough back so that the driver would easily be able to see me, I flashed my headlights to catch his attention.
This failed to raise a response, so I cautiously passed on the inside and accelerated away, as otherwise we would have acted as a rolling roadblock should a car have come round the bend at speed. As I looked in my mirrors I saw two cars come round the corner alongside each other, with the one in lane 2 having to brake sharply and tuck into lane 1 to avoid a collision.
I just wondered whether people thought I handled this correctly, or whether I should have taken a different course of action?
Thanks in advance.
I was travelling Westbound on the M61 towards the curved flyover where it merges with the Northbound M6, at which point there are only two lanes.
As I approached the flyover in lane 1, I noticed a car in lane 2 in the distance. There was no reason for it to be in lane 2 as there were no vehicles around it. I then realised that I was catching it up quite quickly. I slowed to match its speed, and was alarmed to find myself doing 40mph. Still in lane 1, but keeping far enough back so that the driver would easily be able to see me, I flashed my headlights to catch his attention.
This failed to raise a response, so I cautiously passed on the inside and accelerated away, as otherwise we would have acted as a rolling roadblock should a car have come round the bend at speed. As I looked in my mirrors I saw two cars come round the corner alongside each other, with the one in lane 2 having to brake sharply and tuck into lane 1 to avoid a collision.
I just wondered whether people thought I handled this correctly, or whether I should have taken a different course of action?
Thanks in advance.
I've "undetaken" at night, on almost deserted motorways many times.
I've tried various methods of alerting people to my presence, in situations like the one you descibe, I either get :
1) No response, like you
2) I frighten them
3) I anger them
In two lane situations, I will undertake, in three lane situations (assuming they're in lane two, which they usually are), I'll overtake, if they are in lane three, I'll undertake in lane one.
I've never had any response to overtaking them, sometimes when you undertake, you get repeated headlamp flashes, so you've either woken them up, or they consider you shouldn't be travelling faster than them .... I guess.
I've tried various methods of alerting people to my presence, in situations like the one you descibe, I either get :
1) No response, like you
2) I frighten them
3) I anger them
In two lane situations, I will undertake, in three lane situations (assuming they're in lane two, which they usually are), I'll overtake, if they are in lane three, I'll undertake in lane one.
I've never had any response to overtaking them, sometimes when you undertake, you get repeated headlamp flashes, so you've either woken them up, or they consider you shouldn't be travelling faster than them .... I guess.
First time you have ever come across this?? Haven't been driving long or on dual carriageways then?? Its a very common occurence. A great many individuals drive in completely inappropriate lanes. If you were to wait for every one of them to pull their heads out of their backsides you'd waste a significant portion of your life!! Flashing at the offenders generally creates indignance and often aggression. I continue in the lane I am currently occupying that by virtue of the fact that there is nothing visible to the horizon is obviously travelling faster than the other lane that appears to be blocked and hence travelling slower as its still blocked as I disappear over the offenders horizon view.
I get this on the D/C going to work all the time, I atleast attempt to allow them to move over, I slow down behind them, wait a few seconds, give them a flash and if I still get nothing then I just indicate and carefully undertake them.
I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
OP - you did the right thing. You cant sit there behind them indefinatley. If they know you're there but aren't moving then undertake IMO.
Ideally its best done with an escape option, ie a clear hard shoulder or another lane but that luxury isn't always there.
IMO undertaking should be done as quickly as possible, the least amout of time spent on their nearside the better. Get your gear ready, probably third, commit to it and carry on as you were.
Ideally its best done with an escape option, ie a clear hard shoulder or another lane but that luxury isn't always there.
IMO undertaking should be done as quickly as possible, the least amout of time spent on their nearside the better. Get your gear ready, probably third, commit to it and carry on as you were.
ymwoods said:
I get this on the D/C going to work all the time, I atleast attempt to allow them to move over, I slow down behind them, wait a few seconds, give them a flash and if I still get nothing then I just indicate and carefully undertake them.
I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
That is, without question, "undertaking" and you could find yourself being done for dangerous driving if Bib spot you.I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
The grey area is if you're in lane 1 and simply continue and "pass" the vehicle that is rooted in lane 2 without changing lanes.
Deva Link said:
The grey area is if you're in lane 1 and simply continue and "pass" the vehicle that is rooted in lane 2 without changing lanes.
If I may ask, is that your opinion or fact ?What you're suggesting appears to be that if you move into lane two to try and remedy the situation, are unable to do so, then "undertake" the vehicle, its offence commited, but if you ignore the situation, and just undertake, its reasonably ok.
Unless I'm missinterpriting you.
Deva Link said:
ymwoods said:
I get this on the D/C going to work all the time, I atleast attempt to allow them to move over, I slow down behind them, wait a few seconds, give them a flash and if I still get nothing then I just indicate and carefully undertake them.
I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
That is, without question, "undertaking" and you could find yourself being done for dangerous driving if Bib spot you.I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
The grey area is if you're in lane 1 and simply continue and "pass" the vehicle that is rooted in lane 2 without changing lanes.
Deva Link said:
ymwoods said:
I get this on the D/C going to work all the time, I atleast attempt to allow them to move over, I slow down behind them, wait a few seconds, give them a flash and if I still get nothing then I just indicate and carefully undertake them.
I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
That is, without question, "undertaking" and you could find yourself being done for dangerous driving if Bib spot you.I don't think there is any hard rule on what to do in the situation I think its just judgment on the time as to what you think is the best course of action...as with anything really and it seems like you used your head so I don't see any problems.
'Undertaking' - as if its a dirty word - would be quite reasonable IMO. Not all are comfortable with it and thats fine - and probably right - but there are times, such as this and others that it can be done with a clear conscious.
Nigel Worc's said:
Deva Link said:
The grey area is if you're in lane 1 and simply continue and "pass" the vehicle that is rooted in lane 2 without changing lanes.
If I may ask, is that your opinion or fact ?What you're suggesting appears to be that if you move into lane two to try and remedy the situation, are unable to do so, then "undertake" the vehicle, its offence commited, but if you ignore the situation, and just undertake, its reasonably ok.
Unless I'm missinterpriting you.
If you cross from the right lane to the left and pass the vehicle you have in fact been in the wrong lane yourself to start with or crossed deliberatley into the wrong lane causing you to have to perform an undertaking manouvre. If you start off in the correct lane and proceed in the correct lane past the slower lane then you can argue correctness.
I also ensure I am in what I class as the danger area for as little time as possible ie from where the front of my car passes the back of the other car through the other cars blind spot to when my car is sufficiently in view of the other car through the front of his car. I also monitor that vehicle very closely for any sign of manouvres during the entire procedure.
Deva Link said:
That is, without question, "undertaking" and you could find yourself being done for dangerous driving if Bib spot you.
The OP was travelling at a similar speed - The HC allows passing of the left if two queues of traffic are moving at a similar speed. simply, there was only one vehicle in each queue, but, it was still a queue. Edited by mph999 on Wednesday 20th January 00:15
dangerous brain said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Deva Link said:
The grey area is if you're in lane 1 and simply continue and "pass" the vehicle that is rooted in lane 2 without changing lanes.
If I may ask, is that your opinion or fact ?What you're suggesting appears to be that if you move into lane two to try and remedy the situation, are unable to do so, then "undertake" the vehicle, its offence commited, but if you ignore the situation, and just undertake, its reasonably ok.
Unless I'm missinterpriting you.
If you cross from the right lane to the left and pass the vehicle you have in fact been in the wrong lane yourself to start with or crossed deliberatley into the wrong lane causing you to have to perform an undertaking manouvre. If you start off in the correct lane and proceed in the correct lane past the slower lane then you can argue correctness.
Nothing in law is black and white - that's why there are so many highly paid lawyers. Interpretation is everything - if yours is different to the Police, the CPS and the Magistrate, then you'll get convicted even if you're convinced you were right.
Undertaking isn't illegal per se; it's just that it's usually accompanied by "weaving" through lanes which is. As an earlier poster has said, it is legal to go pas a car if your lane is travelling faster than another one; in this case the queue in the outside lane was at 40mph, so since you are allowed to do 70 in the inside lane it was sensible to carry on. I do hate doing it though.
Although for my sins I did once undertake a bus in the bus lane. The council built a whole bloody lane for the bus and the git wouldn't get over into it. Grr.
Although for my sins I did once undertake a bus in the bus lane. The council built a whole bloody lane for the bus and the git wouldn't get over into it. Grr.
Deva Link said:
dangerous brain said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Deva Link said:
The grey area is if you're in lane 1 and simply continue and "pass" the vehicle that is rooted in lane 2 without changing lanes.
If I may ask, is that your opinion or fact ?What you're suggesting appears to be that if you move into lane two to try and remedy the situation, are unable to do so, then "undertake" the vehicle, its offence commited, but if you ignore the situation, and just undertake, its reasonably ok.
Unless I'm missinterpriting you.
If you cross from the right lane to the left and pass the vehicle you have in fact been in the wrong lane yourself to start with or crossed deliberatley into the wrong lane causing you to have to perform an undertaking manouvre. If you start off in the correct lane and proceed in the correct lane past the slower lane then you can argue correctness.
Nothing in law is black and white - that's why there are so many highly paid lawyers. Interpretation is everything - if yours is different to the Police, the CPS and the Magistrate, then you'll get convicted even if you're convinced you were right.
I have had a couple of conversations with traffic Bib regarding this it is always explained not undertaking until you have pulled back out. Hence the grey area in dealing with it.
Realise this was on a bend so maybe not applicable but a 'psych' flash, performed whilst still at some distance behind the offending vehicle is sometimes more effective (and less aggressive) than one at close-quarters. Because you are some distance away it is difficult for the driver to assess your speed and it can appear you may be travelling quite a bit faster than you really are, assuming the driver notices in his/her mirrors...
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