So what do ADers think of this twazzock?

[heebeegeetee]

Discussion here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I'd be interested in what you advanced guys think.

I think that firstly the roundabout is yet another cock-up by the highways engineers, and that the biker has not negotiated the island before. It's possible that if he ever uses it again he may not select lane 1, buy imo lane 1 is theoretically the correct lane to use.

I think Stigmunds driving is absolutely appalling on all sorts of levels, i think he did what he did with intent which would make it dangerous driving in the eyes of the law.

Apparently Stigmund is now saying that he intended to turn left at that island, which makes him some kind of psychopath in my book. The man is clearly intent on having some sort of coming together, just so that he can post the film of it on a website.

However Stigmund still reckons he has done nothing wrong. For clarity, it has been confirmed that the arrow-lane marking in lane 1 is pointing straight ahead, and to me that means that lane 1 is left turn and straight ahead, and lane 2 is ahead only.

What sayeth your good selves?

[hornetrider]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Indeed. A simple commentary on the driving would be good. In my opinion the car driver is far too aggressive in placing himself in the bikers blind spot, and compounds his error with a loud blast of the horn.

[briSk]

look at the extended map:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...

it's a very unclear layout. is mannington ln a bus lane only? if not then both lanes are for both routes surely? if it IS a bus lane only then one would assume that MOST people will only go into the bikers lane to go north. BUT it's not marked like that. and if you assume a biker will do anything other than what's quickest you're going to end up almost knocking them off and having to post a video on the internet..!

[hornetrider]

It's worth pointing out that the biker was already at the junction and may have arrived at the point where we see him via the bus lane, if bus lane use is permitted by bikes in Swindon.

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

From the video, it looks like the car driver mentally committed himself to using a bit of road that was threatened by the biker. He's in such a rush to get to the next red light that he's not left enough options, and has forgotten the unwritten rule of roundabouts: Never be alongside another vehicle if you can avoid it.

So (possibly understandable) mistake by biker turns into an easily avoidable situation. The long horn note gives a clue to the attitude of the driver.

[johnao]

This was my response ...posted in the Bikers Banter forum:

These roundabout markings are yet another example of the appalling mess that the traffic engineers are visiting upon us, especially at roundabouts, with their attempts to justify their existence. No, the lane markings are not precise and determinate and, in my opinion, you would be wrong to assert that they were, if trying to defend your course of action. And, no, I'm not a biker, it would scare me witless to have only two wheels instead of four.

I have a similar misleading, imprecise and complex system of roundabout road markings near me. The lane markings are so complex I always approach the roundabout thinking to myself..."WHATEVER LANE I'M IN IT WILL PROBABLY END UP BEING THE WRONG ONE...AND EVERYONE ELSE WILL ALSO PROBABLY BE IN THE WRONG LANE"

In a situation like this defensive driving is what is required ... never make assumptions.

[hadenough!]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No its not. The driver wanted to turn left, therefore he didn't want to get to the next red light.

[Phisp]

briSk said:

look at the extended map:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...

it's a very unclear layout. is mannington ln a bus lane only? if not then both lanes are for both routes surely? if it IS a bus lane only then one would assume that MOST people will only go into the bikers lane to go north. BUT it's not marked like that. and if you assume a biker will do anything other than what's quickest you're going to end up almost knocking them off and having to post a video on the internet..!

Looks clear enough to me, TBH. The road markings of the westerly juction, approaching the roundabout, clearly indicate that after the traffic island, you are free to use either lane. Looking at the southerly junction, again as you approach the roundabout, there is clearly an arrow indicating that the LH lane should ideally be used for turning left - this is not present at the westerly junction.

Also, to reiterate what someone said in the original thread, none of the lanes on the roundabout are bound by solid white lines - the notion that the LH lane entering the roundabout from the westerly direction is for turing left only is completely incorrect IMO.

As far as I am concerned, the biker was interpreting the road markings correctly and was quite correct with his use of the LH lane of the roundabout.

[Mr Gear]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So hammering up to the junction and cutting left across the front of the bike WAS the right thing to do?!

[sprinter1050]

Ignoring faults by the driver It strikes me as particularly stupid that, on a 2 lane approach to a roundabout, traffic in lane 2 is actually entitled to turn left onto Western Way(?) !

Bound to lead to numerous "cutting up" incidents.

[hadenough!]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Absoloutly not, I think Stigs a plonker based on this. just pointing out the assumptio he was in a rush to get to the next set of lights was incorrect.

[Mr Gear]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

It was my impression that the car driver had intended to go straight on and pick up the left lane on the roundabout, and in that case the red traffic lights are clearly visible.

[Don]

Having studied the road markings the car driver was attempting to use the correct lane.

The biker cocked up.

Luckily no harm done as there was room for the car driver to move over, he did so.

These very minor cock-ups happen hundreds of thousands of times a day and, because people take avoiding action, one person's mistake is corrected by another. Later on the car driver will cock up and someone else will take avoiding action. Coming together accidents only happen when two people cock up at the same time.

[briSk]

on mannington ln the arrow is splitting in two then has two forward arrows it does not have a left and a straight on. then further round the round about the right two lanes are marked as right turn and the left two as straight on- it's reasonable therfore to assume that both lefthand lanes coming from mannington lane are for straight on (the left being left and straight of course).

to the person who said it was clear - well what i meant was that the splitting arrow coming from mannington ln could be interpreted (wrongly i believe) as rh lane (car) straight lh lane (bike) left.


the 1st or second post had it right though - try and use a roundabout side by side and don;t be surprised if something happens..

[stigmundfreud]

hornetrider said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Indeed. A simple commentary on the driving would be good. In my opinion the car driver is far too aggressive in placing himself in the bikers blind spot, and compounds his error with a loud blast of the horn.

explain to me at what point was I aggressive or placing myself deliberately in his blind spot considering I pulled up right along side him before he entered the roundabout. The biker was appaling for not doing ANY observations

As backed up with todays video and images



clearly the above with my updated colours shows the biker has to stay between the left most kerbside and the red line, the next lane can follow the green boundaries left or straight on

http://www.clicketyclicks.co.uk/round2.wmv (I already said sorry for crossing the line on an amber light)

Hornet you seem very defensive and make sweeping comments on my "agressive" driving

[stigmundfreud]

hornetrider said:

It's worth pointing out that the biker was already at the junction and may have arrived at the point where we see him via the bus lane, if bus lane use is permitted by bikes in Swindon.

bikes not permitted in that lane, biker was in front. You want me to post the longer length video where The biker was ahead of me (both doing less than 40) down the road to the junction?

[stigmundfreud]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

From the video, it looks like the car driver mentally committed himself to using a bit of road that was threatened by the biker. He's in such a rush to get to the next red light that he's not left enough options, and has forgotten the unwritten rule of roundabouts: Never be alongside another vehicle if you can avoid it.

So (possibly understandable) mistake by biker turns into an easily avoidable situation. The long horn note gives a clue to the attitude of the driver.

highway code, horn used to alert other road users of your presence. Biker did ZERO life savers or even check at all where he was going, made a potentially damaging mistake to his health without once looking. I blasted the horn to simply alert him I was about to run him down if I hadnt have noticed his mistake.

[stigmundfreud]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

what defines hammering up? Speeds were all at less than 20, I had already slowed for the red lights at the roundabout which turned green as I approached.

[stigmundfreud]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

was a shock reaction, same as if someone knocks your pint over you tell them to watch it. I'll fit a megaphone instead next time so I can shout "Watch where you're going"