How does you’re driving impacts on others?
Discussion
Situation – sorry for the long winded scenario in advance.
40mph dawdler moves into right hand turning (hatch zone) which gives me and the car in front, A4 rep-mobile, the opportunity to accelerate up to nsl on a straight section of A-road.
Now previous to catching up with the 40mph dawdler I had quite steadily caught up with the A4 rep-mobile through a couple of bends, so on the straight section of road I accelerate briskly with the possible view of an overtaking the A4 before we reach the next twisty section. As I move myself into the overtake position I see a car pull out, from the right, ahead and proceed to accelerate relative slowly.
At this point I know that the opportunity to overtake has disappeared due to the fact I would overtake the A4 and then have to brake heavily to slow for the car that had pulled out. At this point I come of the accelerator and dropped back from the A4, as I know I am going to have to brake and reduce my speed relatively soon.
However the A4 continues at current speed and then brakes heavily behind the car at which point I estimate was doing less than 30mph. I gradually catch up with the A4, approx 1 or 2 seconds later with relatively light braking.
Then what happened next shocked me as the A4 driver decides to overtake, the said slow moving car, on a narrow hatch section with an oncoming car approaching. It was quite a close call in my opinion which I defiantly wouldn’t have attempted to do. It probably caused the oncoming driver to brake in the process as well.
After the above event I asked myself, was the actions I took of brisk accelerating and moving into a overtaking position earlier perhaps made the A4 driver to act in the above erratic way?
I am not sure; part of me says yes perhaps I did make him act in a more erratic way than normal. Part of me says no, it was his decision to overtake on that piece of road of which he should have assessed the risk.
Your opinions/experience please?
Note: although I have taken no advanced driving since passing my test I do pride myself on be a safe driver while trying to make good and efficient progress,safety is always the priority. Every time I drive I try to evaluate what I have done well and what I have done not so well and try to implement improvements next time I am in that situation. I have picked up a some good tips from what I have read in this section, thanks
40mph dawdler moves into right hand turning (hatch zone) which gives me and the car in front, A4 rep-mobile, the opportunity to accelerate up to nsl on a straight section of A-road.
Now previous to catching up with the 40mph dawdler I had quite steadily caught up with the A4 rep-mobile through a couple of bends, so on the straight section of road I accelerate briskly with the possible view of an overtaking the A4 before we reach the next twisty section. As I move myself into the overtake position I see a car pull out, from the right, ahead and proceed to accelerate relative slowly.
At this point I know that the opportunity to overtake has disappeared due to the fact I would overtake the A4 and then have to brake heavily to slow for the car that had pulled out. At this point I come of the accelerator and dropped back from the A4, as I know I am going to have to brake and reduce my speed relatively soon.
However the A4 continues at current speed and then brakes heavily behind the car at which point I estimate was doing less than 30mph. I gradually catch up with the A4, approx 1 or 2 seconds later with relatively light braking.
Then what happened next shocked me as the A4 driver decides to overtake, the said slow moving car, on a narrow hatch section with an oncoming car approaching. It was quite a close call in my opinion which I defiantly wouldn’t have attempted to do. It probably caused the oncoming driver to brake in the process as well.
After the above event I asked myself, was the actions I took of brisk accelerating and moving into a overtaking position earlier perhaps made the A4 driver to act in the above erratic way?
I am not sure; part of me says yes perhaps I did make him act in a more erratic way than normal. Part of me says no, it was his decision to overtake on that piece of road of which he should have assessed the risk.
Your opinions/experience please?
Note: although I have taken no advanced driving since passing my test I do pride myself on be a safe driver while trying to make good and efficient progress,safety is always the priority. Every time I drive I try to evaluate what I have done well and what I have done not so well and try to implement improvements next time I am in that situation. I have picked up a some good tips from what I have read in this section, thanks
Perception is more than 50% of any situation and when coupled with opinion makes that situation difficult to judge as a reader of such an account. On the surface of it my opinion is that the audi driver was more affected by being stuck behind the 40mph trundler than anything you did. I would even go so far as to say that I'd be surprised if the audi driver even noticed that you'd accelerated towards him at all as he would have been concentrating on the car that pulled out and making the arguably rash decision to overtake it based on the belief that he may well get stuck behind another trundler.
I see other drivers affected by my driving all the time, and in my more mature moments do something to make the world a safer place and take action to dissuade it. You can't drive for the other guy, however, and in this instance it sounds like you weren't unduly influencing him.
If you were pushing up behind him and close, then you might have been pressing him on. Once abandoning the OT, if you dropped right back (to give him room to screw up) then that's as much as you could do.
Of course you could have taken the pair at that point :-)
I. Must. Grow. Up.
If you were pushing up behind him and close, then you might have been pressing him on. Once abandoning the OT, if you dropped right back (to give him room to screw up) then that's as much as you could do.
Of course you could have taken the pair at that point :-)
I. Must. Grow. Up.
To be honest, the people on here probably all plan their overtakes like you, but your average driver does not. So often (in my experience) people just seem to get bored or frustrated and pull out to overtake regardless. I think it's more to do with pschcology than roadcraft much of the time.
A4 driver obviously wasn't particulary paying attention to his/her driving and probably just thought 'Stuff this!' and went.
Interestingly, trying to drive in an 'advanced' way can also be misinterpreted by others and leave you in a bad light, should something happen.
When driving 'B' roads I knew well, stuck behind a slow moving car, I would leave a good gap through the bendy/lack of visibility sections and then close that gap on approach to a potential overtake opportunity.
On the approach to my accident on the A686 I did just that to at least one car, passing him on a short section of clear road after the exit from a hairpin bend.It wasn't until I read his witness statement that I saw to my horror how it had been interpreted as me intimidating him by hanging back then 'suddenly appearing out of nowhere' on a couple of occasions. There were literally phrases like 'I feared for my children'.
Realising such manoevres are open to this kind of interpretation, despite them being undertaken in the spirit of doing things safely, completely changed my attitude to doing them and even making reasonable progress at all.
When driving 'B' roads I knew well, stuck behind a slow moving car, I would leave a good gap through the bendy/lack of visibility sections and then close that gap on approach to a potential overtake opportunity.
On the approach to my accident on the A686 I did just that to at least one car, passing him on a short section of clear road after the exit from a hairpin bend.It wasn't until I read his witness statement that I saw to my horror how it had been interpreted as me intimidating him by hanging back then 'suddenly appearing out of nowhere' on a couple of occasions. There were literally phrases like 'I feared for my children'.
Realising such manoevres are open to this kind of interpretation, despite them being undertaken in the spirit of doing things safely, completely changed my attitude to doing them and even making reasonable progress at all.
10 Pence Short said:
Interestingly, trying to drive in an 'advanced' way can also be misinterpreted by others and leave you in a bad light, should something happen.
When driving 'B' roads I knew well, stuck behind a slow moving car, I would leave a good gap through the bendy/lack of visibility sections and then close that gap on approach to a potential overtake opportunity.
On the approach to my accident on the A686 I did just that to at least one car, passing him on a short section of clear road after the exit from a hairpin bend.It wasn't until I read his witness statement that I saw to my horror how it had been interpreted as me intimidating him by hanging back then 'suddenly appearing out of nowhere' on a couple of occasions. There were literally phrases like 'I feared for my children'.
Realising such manoevres are open to this kind of interpretation, despite them being undertaken in the spirit of doing things safely, completely changed my attitude to doing them and even making reasonable progress at all.
A very good point, thank you.When driving 'B' roads I knew well, stuck behind a slow moving car, I would leave a good gap through the bendy/lack of visibility sections and then close that gap on approach to a potential overtake opportunity.
On the approach to my accident on the A686 I did just that to at least one car, passing him on a short section of clear road after the exit from a hairpin bend.It wasn't until I read his witness statement that I saw to my horror how it had been interpreted as me intimidating him by hanging back then 'suddenly appearing out of nowhere' on a couple of occasions. There were literally phrases like 'I feared for my children'.
Realising such manoevres are open to this kind of interpretation, despite them being undertaken in the spirit of doing things safely, completely changed my attitude to doing them and even making reasonable progress at all.
I continue to have this discomfort with the idea that a normal driver - i.e. one who is not conversant with properly applied techniques in advanced driving - can give evidence as to the nature of your driving, and yet even though this is being done from an unqualified basis, it can still be damaging to your situation when a mishap is being investigated.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
p1esk said:
I continue to have this discomfort with the idea that a normal driver - i.e. one who is not conversant with properly applied techniques in advanced driving - can give evidence as to the nature of your driving, and yet even though this is being done from an unqualified basis, it can still be damaging to your situation when a mishap is being investigated.
Exactly, for example, I always think that the flashing of headlamps as suggested in Roadcraft can, and probably will, be misinterpreted by most drivers.Roadcraft said:
"Use a headlight flash in daylight to: alert other drivers to your presence when you are approaching from behind."
and
"During darkness use headlight flashes to inform other road users of your presence: before overtaking another vehicle."
Now, in my experience most drivers will interpret flashing of headlamps from the vehicle behind as a sign of frustration or an aggressive "move-out-of-my-way-I'm-coming-past" gesture.and
"During darkness use headlight flashes to inform other road users of your presence: before overtaking another vehicle."
Puddenchucker said:
p1esk said:
I continue to have this discomfort with the idea that a normal driver - i.e. one who is not conversant with properly applied techniques in advanced driving - can give evidence as to the nature of your driving, and yet even though this is being done from an unqualified basis, it can still be damaging to your situation when a mishap is being investigated.
Exactly, for example, I always think that the flashing of headlamps as suggested in Roadcraft can, and probably will, be misinterpreted by most drivers.Roadcraft said:
"Use a headlight flash in daylight to: alert other drivers to your presence when you are approaching from behind."
and
"During darkness use headlight flashes to inform other road users of your presence: before overtaking another vehicle."
Now, in my experience most drivers will interpret flashing of headlamps from the vehicle behind as a sign of frustration or an aggressive "move-out-of-my-way-I'm-coming-past" gesture.and
"During darkness use headlight flashes to inform other road users of your presence: before overtaking another vehicle."
If someone loomed out of the darkness behind me flashing their lights I'd consider that a rather aggressive/self-important possibly even intimidating action, afterall is that not a good description of a police car on a rapid response?
The conclusion most drivers would then assume when the vehicle passes and they realise it is not part of the emergency services is probably "self serving w@nker".
Thats not an attack on anyone who does it but I suspect thats how the general populus would view such actions. By any chance do the majority of BMW drivers subscribe to this rule? (joke before anyone starts!)
This thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... is an example of what I mean.
How we are all confused?
Long headlamp flash, on an overtake, rather than horn warning, suggested to me by my, some time ago now, Police Advanced, IAM Observer checker.
I though, have seen that this does annoy others.
To drive without impacting others?
Impossible.
At times it would appear I am too slow for others.
Then, that junction sign before the unsighted 90 degree bend might give a clue, A road or not.
Then, at other times, it would appear my actions incite others to follow through, "If a Micra can do it, I, in my much faster, car certainly can".
Or, in the Scooby, "I'm going to get past this car".
Until Government insists upon AD standards as the minimum these problems will continue.
So, all we can do is drive trying to take account of those around us, anticipating, allowing and understanding, whilst trying to achieve that "zone of safety" around us.
Long headlamp flash, on an overtake, rather than horn warning, suggested to me by my, some time ago now, Police Advanced, IAM Observer checker.
I though, have seen that this does annoy others.
To drive without impacting others?
Impossible.
At times it would appear I am too slow for others.
Then, that junction sign before the unsighted 90 degree bend might give a clue, A road or not.
Then, at other times, it would appear my actions incite others to follow through, "If a Micra can do it, I, in my much faster, car certainly can".
Or, in the Scooby, "I'm going to get past this car".
Until Government insists upon AD standards as the minimum these problems will continue.
So, all we can do is drive trying to take account of those around us, anticipating, allowing and understanding, whilst trying to achieve that "zone of safety" around us.
Puddenchucker said:
Now, in my experience most drivers will interpret flashing of headlamps from the vehicle behind as a sign of frustration or an aggressive "move-out-of-my-way-I'm-coming-past" gesture.
Sadly this is true. 
However. most of us know when an advanced/experienced/C1 driver is with us, either in front or behind. Once in a while the correct use of flashing is great to see.
OP - the that fact that you dropped back seems to suggest that the Audi person probably drives in that manner all the time and your influence was negligible.
Edited by T5R+ on Saturday 19th December 12:24
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