The new Give Way rule

[BertBert]

I have been meaning to write this for a while and was going to unleash it on SP&L, but they are far too serious, so I thought I'd try it here.

As VH says we can find the old and rather outdated wording here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm#25
It can be summarised thus...

old rule said:

[…] no vehicle shall proceed past [the give way signage] in a manner or at a time likely to endanger the driver of or any passenger in a vehicle on the major road or to cause the driver of such a vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.

Inspired by some heroic barging out at the weekend, here we go...

the new Barge Out rule said:

[…] any vehicle may proceed past [the give way signage] in a manner or at any time regardless of whether it endangers the driver of or any passenger in a vehicle on the major road or if it causes the driver of such a vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident. Such proceeding vehicle is advised to generally avoid proceeding in circumstances where another vehicle is incapable of avoiding an accident no matter how vigorously it changes speed or course. If such an accident should occur as a result of the aforementioned “barging out”, no blame is to be attached to the vehicle barging as it’s only an accident and the insurance will go 50/50 whatever the circumstances.

Not sure if I have got the drafting quite up to scratch yet, but it's close. Any suggestions for improvements welcome!

And of course, lorry and van drivers have been trialling the new legislation for many years. It has now finally been adopted for cars as well

Bert

[Dogwatch]

Couldn't the new rule be shortened to 'Give it a go - you can always blame the other driver, and may get away with it'?

Had to swerve round someone stopped with their front wheels well past the white line. Kind of them to bother, seemingly on the school run.

[AMST09]

Seems a bit like do what you like it will go knock for knock
And if you don't crash drive off and leave them behind in a hedge

Is it true you now have to give way to buses or has this always been the case?

[coanda]

Oh so true, I find its blokes in crappy hatchbacks....but I just thought it was the car I drive.

As for buses...the HWC doesn't explicitly state that you must give way/let out buses YET. Some fkwittery in Bristol saw signs appear on the back of buses stating it was the law...they dissapeared fairly quickly.

[7db]

Give way unless you've been there for a while and you really feel like it's your turn to pull out.

[Don]

7db said:

Give way unless you've been there for a while and you really feel like it's your turn to pull out.

...and try to pull out in front of a nice, shiny sports car. Chances that'll stop - unlike the truck following...

[coanda]

Right,

WRT Buses, the highway code states:

223
Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops. Look out for people getting off a bus or tram and crossing the road.

No attached Law reference.

[Syd knee]

Sory Bert but your rule only aplies to 49% of drivers, the next 49% Stop at least 6 feet short of the line, select 1st gear, click up handbrake, rev engine, creep nearer to line, stop again, then look left and right, then pull out in front of truck.

[BertBert]

coanda said:

Right,

WRT Buses, the highway code states:

223
Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops. Look out for people getting off a bus or tram and crossing the road.

No attached Law reference.

Argh, I'll have to re-write that into a barging rule too.
Bert

[coanda]

Sorry!

Have you covered cyclists?

[delta037]

A recent phenomenon I have encountered on a few occasions now is everyone travelling at a reasonable 25 - 30mph along a main road. Suddenly and for no good reason the driver of the car at the front of this flow spots someone at a side road waiting to turn into the main road. The driver at the front decides it's a great idea to stop and let this person out causing the dozen or so cars behind to all brake - potentially causing an accident - rather than carry on under 'right of way'.

Surely better that the person in the side road waits a few more seconds and get's a safe clear exit once the flow has passed. What the 'front' person doesn't seem to appreciate is that they could become the victim of a twelve car pile up because of their misguided 'polite' and totally inappropriate gesture.

What is OK for traffic queued up and in stop-start mode doesn't translate quite so well at 25-30mph.

[Nigel Worc's]

coanda said:

Sorry!

Have you covered cyclists?

They have absolute priority at all times, in all circumstances, even in areas they are prevented by law from being in.

There you go, thats cyclists covered.

[Distant]

coanda said:

Have you covered cyclists?

In what?

[GingerRob]

delta037 said:

A recent phenomenon I have encountered on a few occasions now is everyone travelling at a reasonable 25 - 30mph along a main road. Suddenly and for no good reason the driver of the car at the front of this flow spots someone at a side road waiting to turn into the main road. The driver at the front decides it's a great idea to stop and let this person out causing the dozen or so cars behind to all brake - potentially causing an accident - rather than carry on under 'right of way'.

Surely better that the person in the side road waits a few more seconds and get's a safe clear exit once the flow has passed. What the 'front' person doesn't seem to appreciate is that they could become the victim of a twelve car pile up because of their misguided 'polite' and totally inappropriate gesture.

What is OK for traffic queued up and in stop-start mode doesn't translate quite so well at 25-30mph.

surely if everyone wasn't driving so close to each other and was paying attention rather than on there phone or doing there make up then there would be very little chance of an accident

[BertBert]

Wow, even I struggle with the new world order...was following a gasman's ford transit towing a trailer with a mini-digger on. Going down a short hill coming out of Epsom this morning. Car from a side road on the right barges out in front. There am I about to mentally berate the barger when I see the beauty of the whole episode.

Van brakes very hard indeed, trailer snakes from side to side (digger remarkably stays put), even I mentally prepped for the ensuing smack. But no, just awesome barging, a work of art. And it gets better. Not only did the barger zip out in front, it didn't zoom away, but kept to a rock steady 28mph, now that's nerves of steel that is. Just skilled, calm barging.

Respect.

Bert

[coanda]

That takes balls.

Or complete ignorance.

[JuniorD]

Nigel Worc's said:

coanda said:

Sorry!

Have you covered cyclists?

They have absolute priority at all times, in all circumstances, even in areas they are prevented by law from being in.

There you go, thats cyclists covered.

I'm an IAM member and a cyclist. I find that cars barging out dangerously in front of bikes is way more prevailant that bikes in front of cars, particulary in the face of those coming from the right. I approach T-junctions and proceed around roundabouts with utmost caution as I've had to take evasive action from encroaching cars far too often. As I cyclist I would never sneak out to make a left turn and can see how this behaviour would freak the average driver.

One thing I have noticed is how overweight people seem to be the biggest culprits for not looking right before proceeding. Might there be a physiological or anotomical reason behind their inability to turn their fat necks or are they just stter drivers than the average, st driver.

Edited by JuniorD on Friday 4th December 16:24

[p1esk]

Don said:

7db said:

Give way unless you've been there for a while and you really feel like it's your turn to pull out.

...and try to pull out in front of a nice, shiny sports car. Chances that'll stop - unlike the truck following...

Isn't that going to be bad news for the arse end of the nice, shiny sports car?

Of course a proper advanced driver wouldn't pull out in front of the nice shiny sports car if he thought there was a danger that the truck driver might get caught out and not stop....

Cor blimey, there a lot to think about in this driving lark.

Best wishes all,
Dave.