Silly lorry driver ?

[Nigel Worc's]

I wonder what your opinions are to this one, it happened today, at Jnc 6 of the M5.

As I'm coming around the island, I have a car that has accelarated quickly he was behind me, I guess he's planning to beat me down the sliproad,he's out of the camera view.

Ignore, if you can, the stupid lane system, it puts you out of position as far as I'm concerned, but I didn't paint it, and when its busy I stick to it.

You will see the merc and the lorry pull out of the junction, the merc is ok in my opinion, again, in my opinion, the lorry should have stayed where he is.

As the lorry creeps across in front of us, the car on my offside blasts his horn ...... the stupid effing lorry just jams his brakes on !

I just went around the back of him, the car on my offside wasn't so lucky, the lorry was lhd, and the driver was opening the door as I went down the sliproad.

Stupid lorry ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2X1A55aZZo

[Oggs]

And you just happen to film this.....
Were you out looking for Lorry drivers???

[vonhosen]

The lorry can't accelerate like the Merc.

[jagracer]

Looking at the video again there appears to be diagonal lane markings (to you) so it's not as clear cut as it seems. On another note, you managed to avoid the truck so why couldn't the other car?

Edited by jagracer on Saturday 14th November 09:45

[Lost soul]

that is simply fascinating

you need a girl friend

[Piglet]

They presumably thought by your positioning that you were going off at the exit before, it looks like it from the video as well.

Not a big deal though, trucks struggle to get out on busy roundabouts, surely everyone knows that and isn't surprised when it happens?

[BertBert]

Question 1 why did the lorry driver put his brakes on?
a something happened in front of him causing him to stop?
b the sound of the horn made him think he needed to stop for a (to him) unseen happening?
c the sound of the horn from the stupidly pushy car made him deliberately slow down out of contrariness?

Q2 why did the car that crashed into the lorry not take action to reduce speed and be able to stop?
a because he is a poor driver relying on his give-way "rights"

Bert

[BertBert]

Forgot to add...how was it for you NW? Clearly you didn't have a crash so that's the main outcome. Did you feel you were on top of the situation taking action to slow? The vid is very hard to judge indeed, but it feels like your speed was a little high for a busy situation with high chance of puller-outers! Also you said yourself the laning on the roundabout has you in the wrong position looking like you might take an earlier exit. The itself hightens the risk of puller-outers.

[hobby-horse]
As I am sure I have said recently, barging out or through is the current fashion in junctions, roundabouts, around parked cars, at give ways etc. I'll barge and the other guy wont drive into me. And if he does who cares? It's just an accident.
[/hh]

Bert

[waremark]

Nigel, thanks for posting.

No problems with the lorry pulling out - quite a large gap, plenty of time for you and vehicles behind or beside you to deal with it. If a lorry did not take such a gap, it might still be waiting.

I felt you squeezed uncomfortably close to the lorry - my personal preferences, based on a limited view.

Why on earth did anyone use the horn? Causing the lorry to stop was a reasonably predictable outcome.

If the man on your offside hit the lorry, surely he has only himself to blame.

Nigel, your tone seems to imply that you are on the side of the car driver and against the lorry; have I understood you right, and if so why?

[mph999]

A I think BertBert said your speed was perhaps a little quick going past the previous exit to where the lorry pully out. There was alorry there waiting, blocking your view of anyone who might have come up the inside of it. However, regarding the juction where the street cleaning lorry pulled out, you had loads of space to stop, no issues at all.

Technically, when you pull out of a junction you should make anyone slow down or change course. However, sometimes there needs to be a bit of give-and-take - as previously mentioned, if the lorry didn't take a gap when available it would never pull out. It's difficult to judge, but I presume the car on your offside was kinda level with you, in shich case it had a similar distance to stop in.

Now, technically the lorry should give way to traffic coming from his right, I do not know if could see you when he pulled out, but I suspect he could, so he was perhaps pushing his luck. However, given what appears to be the large stopping distance I cannot see why the other car may have hit him, apart from the view of "i have right of way so I'll just hit anything in my path".

Martin

[The Black Flash]

Agree - a bit naughty of the lorry, perhaps, but when things are busy there has to be a bit more acceptance of these things than at quieter times.
It seems that many people do have trouble judging the speed of oncomming vehicles on roundabouts.

[vonhosen]

The Black Flash said:

Agree - a bit naughty of the lorry, perhaps, but when things are busy there has to be a bit more acceptance of these things than at quieter times.
It seems that many people do have trouble judging the speed of oncomming vehicles on roundabouts.

Vehicles on roundabouts shouldn't be travelling at speeds that would make it hard for people to judge.

The lorry pulling into such a gap didn't look unduly reasonable to me, what would be more unreasonable would be making an issue of it rather than just gently slowing & passing safely behind it.

[chr15b]

vonhosen said:

The Black Flash said:

Agree - a bit naughty of the lorry, perhaps, but when things are busy there has to be a bit more acceptance of these things than at quieter times.
It seems that many people do have trouble judging the speed of oncomming vehicles on roundabouts.

Vehicles on roundabouts shouldn't be travelling at speeds that would make it hard for people to judge.

The lorry pulling into such a gap didn't look unduly reasonable to me, what would be more unreasonable would be making an issue of it rather than just gently slowing & passing safely behind it.

so if a lorry driver pulled out in front of you in a fully liveried police car causing you to take avoiding action you wouldn't pull him over for a little chat?

people fail their driving tests for driving like this.

[p1esk]

vonhosen said:

The Black Flash said:

Agree - a bit naughty of the lorry, perhaps, but when things are busy there has to be a bit more acceptance of these things than at quieter times.
It seems that many people do have trouble judging the speed of oncomming vehicles on roundabouts.

Vehicles on roundabouts shouldn't be travelling at speeds that would make it hard for people to judge.

The lorry pulling into such a gap didn't look unduly reasonable to me, what would be more unreasonable would be making an issue of it rather than just gently slowing & passing safely behind it.

Does that need an edit? Did you mean to say that it didn't look unreasonable?

To be honest I think I would have been quite happy for the lorry to pull out in front of me like that. Anyhow Nigel seemed to have no difficulty with that: it was no real drama. Even though we (already on the roundabout) have priority, I tend to try and leave gaps that a joiner can slip into. I don't have to of course, but it seems to make things flow better - a sort of informal merge in turn arrangement - because at busy times it can be difficult for large heavy vehicles to get in.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Munter]

Oggs said:

And you just happen to film this.....
Were you out looking for Lorry drivers???

http://www.roadhawk.co.uk/ I suspect.

[Nigel Worc's]

OK.

I've misslead you all, apologies.

There was no crash, the car on my offside had to stop, he did so without hitting the lorry, I almost had to come to a complete stop.

I put this up, not as an indication of a mistake by the lorry driver, but as a "deliberate" attempt, in my opinion, by the lorry driver, to cause a situation.

I see many mistakes, and of course make them myself, I wouldn't have posted what I believed to be a simple mistake.

It does look slightly different from how I percieved it at the time, but when he starts to pull out, everything seems ok to me, although its clear I will have to lose speed.

He then slows, quite a lot, I couldn't understand why, this caused me to need to lose more speed than I'd originally planned, this made me feel very uncomfortable, as I don't have an escape route, I cannot have an escape route at that point, there is nowhere to go, and I'm at the mercy of those around me.

As for why I was filming, the camera is on most of the time, bit of a new toy, but has been reasonably useful so far at showing my own shortcomings.

From what you guys are posting, it seems your thoughts don't agree with mine.

Edited by Nigel Worc's on Saturday 14th November 14:03

[Nigel Worc's]

vonhosen said:

Vehicles on roundabouts shouldn't be travelling at speeds that would make it hard for people to judge.

The lorry pulling into such a gap didn't look unduly reasonable to me, what would be more unreasonable would be making an issue of it rather than just gently slowing & passing safely behind it.

Interesting comment from you, my speed seems little different from others you can see in the clip.

What makes you think I'm too fast (nsl limit, roads around the island are 5 x nsl, 1 x 50 mph, if I remember correctly and nothings changed recently, I don't use all of them very often, but I traverse that island very very often).

[vonhosen]

Nigel Worc's said:

vonhosen said:

Vehicles on roundabouts shouldn't be travelling at speeds that would make it hard for people to judge.

The lorry pulling into such a gap didn't look unduly reasonable to me, what would be more unreasonable would be making an issue of it rather than just gently slowing & passing safely behind it.

Interesting comment from you, my speed seems little different from others you can see in the clip.

What makes you think I'm too fast (nsl limit, roads around the island are 5 x nsl, 1 x 50 mph, if I remember correctly and nothings changed recently, I don't use all of them very often, but I traverse that island very very often).

I didn't say you were too fast, I was giving that comment in reply to the poster immediately preceding that post.

You could avoid him & you did.
That however would have been easier still if there was no horn note & he didn't stop as a result of it.

But that aside (Re your comment about what the limits are there) the fact something is a NSL limit it doesn't mean you should be anywhere near that speed in those circumstances. Being inside the speed limit isn't the sole obligation.

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 14th November 14:00

[The Black Flash]

vonhosen said:

The Black Flash said:

Agree - a bit naughty of the lorry, perhaps, but when things are busy there has to be a bit more acceptance of these things than at quieter times.
It seems that many people do have trouble judging the speed of oncomming vehicles on roundabouts.

Vehicles on roundabouts shouldn't be travelling at speeds that would make it hard for people to judge.

You're dangerously close to a "lowest common denominator" argument there.
If someone has poor judgement, that is their failing.

That's not to say you shouldn't expect people to pull out on you when traversing a roundabout just because you have ROW. I was merely making an observation.

[vonhosen]

The Black Flash said:

vonhosen said:

The Black Flash said:

Agree - a bit naughty of the lorry, perhaps, but when things are busy there has to be a bit more acceptance of these things than at quieter times.
It seems that many people do have trouble judging the speed of oncomming vehicles on roundabouts.

Vehicles on roundabouts shouldn't be travelling at speeds that would make it hard for people to judge.

You're dangerously close to a "lowest common denominator" argument there.
If someone has poor judgement, that is their failing.

That's not to say you shouldn't expect people to pull out on you when traversing a roundabout just because you have ROW. I was merely making an observation.

On a roundabout the fact you get on it first doesn't absolve you of your obligations to integrate safely with others. We need more co-operation with each other on the roads & less I got here first so it's your look out.

On busy roundabouts we know that lorries are going to be looking to enter them. We know that they aren't going to get to speed quickly. We know that we may have to alter our speed to accommodate them where they have pulled into what would otherwise (other than for their slow acceleration) be a reasonable gap. We should therefore be travelling at a reasonable speed with that in mind rather than saying it's a NSL limit so I can travel at that & tough to you Mr Lorry Diver.