Advanced Driving Courses?
Discussion
Really? I think some good drilled skills would be better than Whitmorean introspective.
Pass Plus is the obvious starting point, with IAM / RoADR groups following on.
AD-UK is a very supportive forum for younger drivers wishing to improve their skills, and should you wish, the annual HPC young driver's day gives a good insight into what's out there.
Worth learning earlier rather than later - wish I had, rather than driving like a knob for my twenties.
Pass Plus is the obvious starting point, with IAM / RoADR groups following on.
AD-UK is a very supportive forum for younger drivers wishing to improve their skills, and should you wish, the annual HPC young driver's day gives a good insight into what's out there.
Worth learning earlier rather than later - wish I had, rather than driving like a knob for my twenties.
Can't we have a sticky for this subject?
Maybe a wiki where the great and good can list the different options and stop the same darn question being asked every other day by people who appear to be unable to use the search feature.
ETA: A bit like the one that's already there.
Oops.
Maybe a wiki where the great and good can list the different options and stop the same darn question being asked every other day by people who appear to be unable to use the search feature.
ETA: A bit like the one that's already there.
Oops.
Edited by LordGrover on Friday 6th November 08:58
Others also recommend the "thinking about it" approach.
Example:- http://drivinghandbook.co.uk/
However, nothing wrong with getting some basic skills "on board" (7db route)
in parallel with "considering future".
Example:- http://drivinghandbook.co.uk/
However, nothing wrong with getting some basic skills "on board" (7db route)
in parallel with "considering future".
7db said:
I agree that ultimately you need to think about it. But you have to get in the sandpit and get messy before you think about what sort of sandcastle you want to build.
That depends on how he prefers to learn (activist or theorist ?)We still don't know what he perceives an advanced driving course to be about.
I am with 7db. Let's suggest some positive direction. The obvious (to me) starting point to a lifetime of safer and more enjoyable driving is IAM Skill for Life or Rospa Advanced Drivers and Riders. Training from these organisations is subsidised by the fact that the training is delivered by volunteers. Many of the other organisations linked on the Advanced Driving Links page offer even better quality training, but at a price likely to be prohibitive for most 18 year old's birthday presents.
I like 7db wish someone had given me this specific advice at 18.
I like 7db wish someone had given me this specific advice at 18.
Hi Butch
You may be wondering about the difference between 'drilled skills' and 'Whitmorean introspective' as mentioned in an early reply.
With drilled skills you get told what to do. This relies on the opinion of the instructor as to what is best for you, what to do and how best to do it. It can be a good way of teaching, especially those with no prior knowledge of a subject and is the one that most people are familiar with from their days at school.
Sadly many of those that teach drilled driving skills (even those that are highly respected and oft recommended) do not have sufficient understanding of what they are teaching in order to explain things correctly. For instance if you have an appreciation of Newton's Laws of Motion and Coulomb's Laws of Friction you will see that much of that which is used to explain 'advanced' car control is not consistent with these aspects of physics.
If you don't appreciate the physical laws then obviously you (like many others) can be hoodwinked by those that don't either, but are convinced that what they are telling you is correct.
Whitmorean introspection refers to the methods encouraged by ex European Touring Car champion Sir John Whitmore. In spite of his enormous driving talent he does not advocate drilled skills but supports the idea that you think about what you want to achieve and then learn how to arrive at that goal either through experimentation by yourself or with others helping you to think about it without guiding where your thoughts should go (a very tricky skill in itself) but either way you arrive at your own conclusions.
This method essentially involves reinventing the wheel. I had a discussion with Sir John once in which he suggested that drivers learn to use the clutch by his method. This left me seeing that his ideas on learning could be improved on too. That's not to say though that such methods aren't very good once some understanding has been achieved, they do in fact produce excellent results.
My suggestion would be to put down in words on this forum what advanced driving means to you. For some here it means following the Highway Code, so minimising the danger of being in an accident and never being at fault. For others it means breaking the Highway Code and the Law when they think they won't be caught and it's safe to do so in order to make progress. For some it seems to be about making progress when it may not be safe even if they are obeying the law (Not necessarily the same as following the Highway Code as not all of that is Law). For others it may be Formula 1 like car control. Decide what it means to you and we'll be more able to help.
As has been previously said, many of us would have benefited from opinions on such a forum in the days before the net when we were new to driving. Hopefully we can help you and for most of us it would seem that safety is always uppermost in our theoretical priorities, being human that may not always be the case in practical terms . So remember that the real test of your driving is not when you are being forced to behave alongside an examiner, it is when you are out there doing it for yourself.
If you want to talk about this further with a professional feel free to contact me through a pm.
Best regards
Martin A
You may be wondering about the difference between 'drilled skills' and 'Whitmorean introspective' as mentioned in an early reply.
With drilled skills you get told what to do. This relies on the opinion of the instructor as to what is best for you, what to do and how best to do it. It can be a good way of teaching, especially those with no prior knowledge of a subject and is the one that most people are familiar with from their days at school.
Sadly many of those that teach drilled driving skills (even those that are highly respected and oft recommended) do not have sufficient understanding of what they are teaching in order to explain things correctly. For instance if you have an appreciation of Newton's Laws of Motion and Coulomb's Laws of Friction you will see that much of that which is used to explain 'advanced' car control is not consistent with these aspects of physics.
If you don't appreciate the physical laws then obviously you (like many others) can be hoodwinked by those that don't either, but are convinced that what they are telling you is correct.
Whitmorean introspection refers to the methods encouraged by ex European Touring Car champion Sir John Whitmore. In spite of his enormous driving talent he does not advocate drilled skills but supports the idea that you think about what you want to achieve and then learn how to arrive at that goal either through experimentation by yourself or with others helping you to think about it without guiding where your thoughts should go (a very tricky skill in itself) but either way you arrive at your own conclusions.
This method essentially involves reinventing the wheel. I had a discussion with Sir John once in which he suggested that drivers learn to use the clutch by his method. This left me seeing that his ideas on learning could be improved on too. That's not to say though that such methods aren't very good once some understanding has been achieved, they do in fact produce excellent results.
My suggestion would be to put down in words on this forum what advanced driving means to you. For some here it means following the Highway Code, so minimising the danger of being in an accident and never being at fault. For others it means breaking the Highway Code and the Law when they think they won't be caught and it's safe to do so in order to make progress. For some it seems to be about making progress when it may not be safe even if they are obeying the law (Not necessarily the same as following the Highway Code as not all of that is Law). For others it may be Formula 1 like car control. Decide what it means to you and we'll be more able to help.
As has been previously said, many of us would have benefited from opinions on such a forum in the days before the net when we were new to driving. Hopefully we can help you and for most of us it would seem that safety is always uppermost in our theoretical priorities, being human that may not always be the case in practical terms . So remember that the real test of your driving is not when you are being forced to behave alongside an examiner, it is when you are out there doing it for yourself.
If you want to talk about this further with a professional feel free to contact me through a pm.
Best regards
Martin A
Edited by Martin A on Thursday 12th November 13:51
Hmmm. Have read a few of Martin A's posts with some interest so I've booked a session with him. I have little 'advanced' driving experience; just a TVRCC driver training day on an airfield and two half days with RideDrive - both recommended. 
It'll be interesting to see how, where or if they differ.
It'll be interesting to see how, where or if they differ.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff