How to help at an RTC
Discussion
So on Friday night I was on my way out and followed a right hand bend to be confronted by a car on its side. It appeared that someone had pulled out from a junction and T-boned said car, shunting it onto its side. There were three blokes standing by the roof and airbag smoke/powder was billowing out of the smashed passenger side window, which was now pointing skywards. Nothing much seemed to be happening and I believe it had occurred a matter of seconds earlier.
I'm no medic (although this incident has prompted me to consider learning first aid) and as the first car on the scene from my direction I thought it best to block the road with my car, hazards flashing, to prevent anyone from steaming into the crashed vehicles. I then got out and ran to the overturned car and checked that someone had rung the emergency services, and found that a lad was on the phone to them. Nothing else appeared to be happening. I suggested pushing the car back over onto its wheels to help the driver get out, but the blokes just looked at me like I had grown another head (maybe because I'm female and was dressed for going out for a meal, and probably didn't look as though I could be much help in the 'brute force' department!).
The driver managed to get out by pulling himself up and out onto the passenger door and then jumping down to the floor. He was ok (or as ok as one can be after being tippled over) and the driver from the other vehicle was already out and sitting on the side of the road. I thought I probably could be of no more use after checking there were no more occupants, so I left and went on my way.
But I kept thinking about it afterwards. Hopefully I will never come across a scene like that again, but wonder what the proper procedure is (just in case). Should you push a car back onto its wheels or is it dangerous to do so? I'm a WRC fan and its common to see cars being rolled back over by the fans, but is it safe to do this with a normal road car? And what about ignition etc? In this case, there was no way of getting to the ignition as the car was lying on the drivers side, but the headlights were on and the radio was blaring. If the car hadn't been upturned would it have been best to leave switches, ignition etc as they were or to switch off? And if hazard lights switch was accessible, same question. I'm thinking more from a safety point of view.
I'm no medic (although this incident has prompted me to consider learning first aid) and as the first car on the scene from my direction I thought it best to block the road with my car, hazards flashing, to prevent anyone from steaming into the crashed vehicles. I then got out and ran to the overturned car and checked that someone had rung the emergency services, and found that a lad was on the phone to them. Nothing else appeared to be happening. I suggested pushing the car back over onto its wheels to help the driver get out, but the blokes just looked at me like I had grown another head (maybe because I'm female and was dressed for going out for a meal, and probably didn't look as though I could be much help in the 'brute force' department!).
The driver managed to get out by pulling himself up and out onto the passenger door and then jumping down to the floor. He was ok (or as ok as one can be after being tippled over) and the driver from the other vehicle was already out and sitting on the side of the road. I thought I probably could be of no more use after checking there were no more occupants, so I left and went on my way.
But I kept thinking about it afterwards. Hopefully I will never come across a scene like that again, but wonder what the proper procedure is (just in case). Should you push a car back onto its wheels or is it dangerous to do so? I'm a WRC fan and its common to see cars being rolled back over by the fans, but is it safe to do this with a normal road car? And what about ignition etc? In this case, there was no way of getting to the ignition as the car was lying on the drivers side, but the headlights were on and the radio was blaring. If the car hadn't been upturned would it have been best to leave switches, ignition etc as they were or to switch off? And if hazard lights switch was accessible, same question. I'm thinking more from a safety point of view.
It's best to leave the occupants in situ unless they are in imminent danger (i.e. the car is on fire or leaking petrol) because there's a high risk of spinal injury in a crash. Most modern cars have cutouts on the ignition and fuel systems in the event of an accident.
Aside from that you did what I would do.
Aside from that you did what I would do.
Most important is your safety, there's no point being a hero if you turn yourself into another casualty. Park somewhere safe (blocking the road is generally not a good idea) with your hazards on, if its dark try to point your headlights at the crash scene. If the incident is around a blind bend then try to position your car so it can be seen by approaching vehicles, or send someone back down the road to warn oncoming traffic (with a torch at night).
Phone 999 or get someone else to, stay calm and give them as much detail as you can. Don't try to move casualties unless you think they would be exposed to more danger where they are. It's generally best to leave people in cars, none of this dragging people through the windows stuff. Unless of course there's a risk of fire or further impacts, in which case get them out pronto, but stay calm and reassuring. Turn off the ignition if it's still on but leave any other switches (hazards) alone unless you're sure there is no fuel leakage.
Get people away from the danger scene to somewhere safe, and try to keep their necks still in case of spinal injuries.
Moving overturned vehicles is the last thing you should be attempting, leave it for the professionals, it's not like anyones likely to be driving it home anyway!
Phone 999 or get someone else to, stay calm and give them as much detail as you can. Don't try to move casualties unless you think they would be exposed to more danger where they are. It's generally best to leave people in cars, none of this dragging people through the windows stuff. Unless of course there's a risk of fire or further impacts, in which case get them out pronto, but stay calm and reassuring. Turn off the ignition if it's still on but leave any other switches (hazards) alone unless you're sure there is no fuel leakage.
Get people away from the danger scene to somewhere safe, and try to keep their necks still in case of spinal injuries.
Moving overturned vehicles is the last thing you should be attempting, leave it for the professionals, it's not like anyones likely to be driving it home anyway!
Never roll the car back on to its wheels, if the people in the car have suffered a neck or back injury they are better off staying where they are. Back in the day when I used to marshal motorsport we never put anything back on to its wheels unless it was impossible to remove the driver...even then we would do a controlled rollover using as many big blokes as possible. Even with an empty car we would do this to try and prevent any further damage to the car.
Most modern cars have an ignition cut built in but if possible turn it off anyway but dont wander off with the keys, the recovery mob will want them so they can still turn the steering wheel.
If you arrive on the scene and there are already dozens of people milling around just keep going, you will just be adding to the number of people in the way and you cant offer a statement as you did not see the accident happen.
Always always always remember your own safety!!!
Most modern cars have an ignition cut built in but if possible turn it off anyway but dont wander off with the keys, the recovery mob will want them so they can still turn the steering wheel.
If you arrive on the scene and there are already dozens of people milling around just keep going, you will just be adding to the number of people in the way and you cant offer a statement as you did not see the accident happen.
Always always always remember your own safety!!!
The pro's can give far better advice than a layperson, the only things I can say are based on the fact I seem to have a habit of turning up at crashes just after they've happened! The most recent one a guy fell out of a car on the motorway just in frotn of us and hit the road at about 50mph 
And another where a car t-boned a girl on a motorbike on a roundabout. And another where a car buried itself in a hedge. That's just in the last 6 months!
Assuming it's not just a little bumper tap I would say first call 999 to get the trained people there as quickly as you can.
Make sure you stay safe - you can't help people if you are injured because you put yourself at too much risk.
Try to make sure the injured people are safe (e.g. chappie on the motorway was obviuosly in a dangerous place!)
Beyond that I guess it's dependent on the scene and I'd hesitate to add anything technical in case it's wrong! Fortunately wherever I've been there havent been lots of injured people, so I've taken the approach of staying with the injured person, stopping them moving around too much in case of spinal injuries, talking to them, chatting with them. Again fortunately I haven't had serious bleeding or fire to contend with !
Having been a victim of crashes and various accidents in cars and on horses I've always felt better when people talk to me. Maybe hold my hand. Stuff like that. Don't just leave them on their own.
I've started carrying high viz jackets within reach in the car, and I keep meaning to add a decent first aid kit (gloves, bandages, pads etc.) as I seem to get involved a few times a year! Also a head torch or something is useful.
If the people aren't too badly injured, or there are others to help, I've also found it helps to ask what happened and maybe take photo's of the scene. Not from a ghoulish perspective but in case of insurance stuff. Girl on the bike for example I emailed her the pics I took of the scene to help with her insurance claim. Also people tend to forget exactly what happened so I ask them (not if it seems too awful) and try to remember for them/emergency services when they turn up.
And another where a car t-boned a girl on a motorbike on a roundabout. And another where a car buried itself in a hedge. That's just in the last 6 months!Assuming it's not just a little bumper tap I would say first call 999 to get the trained people there as quickly as you can.
Make sure you stay safe - you can't help people if you are injured because you put yourself at too much risk.
Try to make sure the injured people are safe (e.g. chappie on the motorway was obviuosly in a dangerous place!)
Beyond that I guess it's dependent on the scene and I'd hesitate to add anything technical in case it's wrong! Fortunately wherever I've been there havent been lots of injured people, so I've taken the approach of staying with the injured person, stopping them moving around too much in case of spinal injuries, talking to them, chatting with them. Again fortunately I haven't had serious bleeding or fire to contend with !
Having been a victim of crashes and various accidents in cars and on horses I've always felt better when people talk to me. Maybe hold my hand. Stuff like that. Don't just leave them on their own.
I've started carrying high viz jackets within reach in the car, and I keep meaning to add a decent first aid kit (gloves, bandages, pads etc.) as I seem to get involved a few times a year! Also a head torch or something is useful.
If the people aren't too badly injured, or there are others to help, I've also found it helps to ask what happened and maybe take photo's of the scene. Not from a ghoulish perspective but in case of insurance stuff. Girl on the bike for example I emailed her the pics I took of the scene to help with her insurance claim. Also people tend to forget exactly what happened so I ask them (not if it seems too awful) and try to remember for them/emergency services when they turn up.
burns76 said:
I'm no medic (although this incident has prompted me to consider learning first aid)
Having had the unfortunate experience (twice) of arriving at the scene of an RTA where uncontrolled bleeding was a factor then this will really make a difference. Plus you will gain insight into what is the right thing to do, usually from the perspective of stopping bystanders from doing the wrong thing, which so often happens.dreamer75 said:
I've always felt better when people talk to me. Maybe hold my hand. Stuff like that. Don't just leave them on their own.
Never underestimate the effect of shock. Saw one kid knocked down and he had a compound leg fracture - didnt stop him from constantly trying to get up and run away!
dreamer75 said:
The pro's can give far better advice than a layperson, the only things I can say are based on the fact I seem to have a habit of turning up at crashes just after they've happened! The most recent one a guy fell out of a car on the motorway just in frotn of us and hit the road at about 50mph And another where a car t-boned a girl on a motorbike on a roundabout. And another where a car buried itself in a hedge. That's just in the last 6 months!
Remind me not to drive along with you behind me! Sounds lethal. And another where a car t-boned a girl on a motorbike on a roundabout. And another where a car buried itself in a hedge. That's just in the last 6 months!Having said which, having read more about the guy on a motorway incident on another forum, he probably owes his life to dreamer's good driving and prompt actions. So maybe I do want you behind me after all!
Older folks may not realise that some of this stuff is now in the Highway Code and covered by the theory test. HWC says, Deal with danger (stop anyone else running into the accident), Get help, Help those involved - Airways, Breathing, Circulation. And be prepared, first aid training and first aid kit.
[quote]
Never underestimate the effect of shock. Saw one kid knocked down and he had a compound leg fracture - didnt stop him from constantly trying to get up and run away!
[/quote]
When I was knocked off a bike in SA, I was more concerned that some thieving b
d would steal the bike and tried beating them off (despite my leg looking like something out of Saw). They were probably trying to help get it out of the road but nobody tried to calm me down. Come to think of it, the fkers WERE probably trying to nick it.
My point is: calm the victim. Shock is a nasty thing.
Never underestimate the effect of shock. Saw one kid knocked down and he had a compound leg fracture - didnt stop him from constantly trying to get up and run away!
[/quote]
When I was knocked off a bike in SA, I was more concerned that some thieving bd would steal the bike and tried beating them off (despite my leg looking like something out of Saw). They were probably trying to help get it out of the road but nobody tried to calm me down. Come to think of it, the fkers WERE probably trying to nick it.My point is: calm the victim. Shock is a nasty thing.
I always , always stop and help... especially after one occassion when I passed a car upside down in a ditch assumed all was ok and it had happened a lot earlier and drove past (was a quiet country lane). I was passed by the emergency services going the other way about 10 minutes later....
This was in the days before "Police Aware" stickers.
This was in the days before "Police Aware" stickers.
Edited by thatone1967 on Friday 6th November 01:22
Edited by thatone1967 on Friday 6th November 01:23
The only thing I'd add to any of the comments about being on scene at an RTC while waiting for the ambulance is to add a word of caution about playing the good samaritan on cold/wet night when allowing a 'patient' (out of the wreck and walking about) to sit in your vehicle if there's any suggestion/possibility of a spinal injury; There's been a number of incidences where the vehicle in which the patient is now sat (belonging to good samaritan, police, etc) has subsequently had it's roof removed by the fire-service so that the patient can be suitably immobilised and removed on a spinal-board leaving said vehicle now a write-off 'convertible' 
1. Keep calm.
2. Call the emergency services, giving as much accurate information that you can.
3. Listen to the advice given by the call taker. They will ask you about casualties, and may advise you how best to help those that need immediate care.
4. When the services arrive on scene, keep out of their way, but be prepared to hold/carry if they ask you to.
Where people are out of the vehicles:
With open bleeding wounds, try to find clean tissue paper (entire pack if need be), and if they are concious and able, get them to press the pack hard (as much as they can bare) onto the wound. This will help stem the bleeding. Clean absorbent type cloth made into a pad will also do.
Do not attempt to move casualties. (a) you may cause greater injury, and (b) you're not insured in this litigation led society where ambulance chasing lawyers now live.
If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
Above all - Keep Calm and Carry On!
2. Call the emergency services, giving as much accurate information that you can.
3. Listen to the advice given by the call taker. They will ask you about casualties, and may advise you how best to help those that need immediate care.
4. When the services arrive on scene, keep out of their way, but be prepared to hold/carry if they ask you to.
Where people are out of the vehicles:
With open bleeding wounds, try to find clean tissue paper (entire pack if need be), and if they are concious and able, get them to press the pack hard (as much as they can bare) onto the wound. This will help stem the bleeding. Clean absorbent type cloth made into a pad will also do.
Do not attempt to move casualties. (a) you may cause greater injury, and (b) you're not insured in this litigation led society where ambulance chasing lawyers now live.
If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
Above all - Keep Calm and Carry On!
dreamer75 said:
Having been a victim of crashes and various accidents in cars and on horses I've always felt better when people talk to me. Maybe hold my hand. Stuff like that. Don't just leave them on their own.
Just to add to this, when I did my courses I was trained to deal with the people who were silent first - but let the conscious victims know you'll be over when you can. Reason being that if someone is conscious and talking (or even screaming) they are likely to be in a 'better' state than someone who is silent or unconscious. Im happy to be corrected on this by anyone who knows more on this subject btw.As mentioned above, get help first before getting involved.
Personally I think first aid training should be taught to everyone - you might never need it but it can make all the difference.
Edited by HalfMoon on Tuesday 17th November 11:31
thunderbelmont said:
Listen to the advice given by the call taker. They will ask you about casualties, and may advise you how best to help those that need immediate care.
If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
Hmmm, don't necessarily take their word as gospel; the vast majority of call takers - well meaning though they may be- have got no medical training; the advice given is based on reference to generic 'flow-charts' rather than any clinical knowledge, which can result in sometimes contradictory and erroneous advice. If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
maddog993 said:
thunderbelmont said:
Listen to the advice given by the call taker. They will ask you about casualties, and may advise you how best to help those that need immediate care.
If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
Hmmm, don't necessarily take their word as gospel; the vast majority of call takers - well meaning though they may be- have got no medical training; the advice given is based on reference to generic 'flow-charts' rather than any clinical knowledge, which can result in sometimes contradictory and erroneous advice. If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
Casualty breathing, then if required casualty bleeding, your safety first at ALL times.
The absolute gentleman who saved me last year identified I wasn't breathing, as soon as he moved my head I'm told I gasped and began to breath.
I had a collegue die in a road accident about ten years ago, bit like mine as in nobody had any idea as to why he crashed, bystanders didn't get to him, at his inquest the coroner said he died of suffocation due to the position he ended up in, not from injuries recieved in the accident.
Shock is a major factor, from when I regained conciousness I can still remember peoples voices, calmly chatting to me,(although I couldn't say anything for whatever reason), telling me not to worry, an ambulance was on its way etc, I was also being held, especially my head.
The woo woo sound of approaching sirens was also strangely reassuring.
The absolute gentleman who saved me last year identified I wasn't breathing, as soon as he moved my head I'm told I gasped and began to breath.
I had a collegue die in a road accident about ten years ago, bit like mine as in nobody had any idea as to why he crashed, bystanders didn't get to him, at his inquest the coroner said he died of suffocation due to the position he ended up in, not from injuries recieved in the accident.
Shock is a major factor, from when I regained conciousness I can still remember peoples voices, calmly chatting to me,(although I couldn't say anything for whatever reason), telling me not to worry, an ambulance was on its way etc, I was also being held, especially my head.
The woo woo sound of approaching sirens was also strangely reassuring.
thunderbelmont said:
maddog993 said:
thunderbelmont said:
Listen to the advice given by the call taker. They will ask you about casualties, and may advise you how best to help those that need immediate care.
If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
Hmmm, don't necessarily take their word as gospel; the vast majority of call takers - well meaning though they may be- have got no medical training; the advice given is based on reference to generic 'flow-charts' rather than any clinical knowledge, which can result in sometimes contradictory and erroneous advice. If in doubt, ask the call-taker at Ambulance Control - they will talk you through, and keep you informed of the progress of the crews en-route.
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