Heal & toe advice
Discussion
When changing down I normally blip the throttle to smooth things out.
This evening, having been looking at heal & toe on t'internet today, I thought I'd give it a go on the way to the supermarket. Before I set off, I gave it quick bit of practice, foot on brake and blip the throttle - so far so good.
However, when out & about (making sure no-body else was around of course, and at sensibly low speeds) I hit a problem. It seems that in the Boxster (986) the brake pedal is higher (ie closer to me) than the accelerator, so to be able to get my foot close enough to blip the throttle I had to be on pretty much 100% brake.
Is this a common issue? Do I just need more practice, do something different or forget about it in this car?
This evening, having been looking at heal & toe on t'internet today, I thought I'd give it a go on the way to the supermarket. Before I set off, I gave it quick bit of practice, foot on brake and blip the throttle - so far so good.
However, when out & about (making sure no-body else was around of course, and at sensibly low speeds) I hit a problem. It seems that in the Boxster (986) the brake pedal is higher (ie closer to me) than the accelerator, so to be able to get my foot close enough to blip the throttle I had to be on pretty much 100% brake.
Is this a common issue? Do I just need more practice, do something different or forget about it in this car?
very true. The only advice I can give is for your spelling 
D'oh. Perhaps you've misread my post... I've got a problem with my toe and I'm looking for advice on getting it better ... ahem.
My car is the same, but then it has a sport mode so that the throttle is more 'top' heavy and you can heel and toe more easily then. Naturally you could say.
However, it really does come down to getting used to it. Get used to the deeper throttle travel and you can start to make use of the brake and throttle nicely.
There are also other ways to do it. With a fairly wide shoe/trainer (not a narrow type), on my old Peugeot's, you could big toe and half that bit of foot the brake, and then just roll the other half of the foot on to the throttle really nicely. A wonderful setup that was actually nicer than 'proper heel' and toe for road use imho (ie, never super aggressive and needing loads of braking and throttle application)
Dave
However, it really does come down to getting used to it. Get used to the deeper throttle travel and you can start to make use of the brake and throttle nicely.
There are also other ways to do it. With a fairly wide shoe/trainer (not a narrow type), on my old Peugeot's, you could big toe and half that bit of foot the brake, and then just roll the other half of the foot on to the throttle really nicely. A wonderful setup that was actually nicer than 'proper heel' and toe for road use imho (ie, never super aggressive and needing loads of braking and throttle application)
Dave
Some Porsches, Mercs and BMW models are a bit tricky to do a H&T without modifying the pedals. You can either, modify the pedals so they are lined up better, or you can swing the heel off of the brake pedal much more and then rock the heel down onto the gas pedal whilst giving a compensatory lift of the toe on the brake to prevent a captain kangaroo scenario. A lot of cars have the pedals in a good position to do the twitch with the outside of the foot method but have too much servo assist on the brakes, so again a little bit of a compensatory lift of the pressure on the brake pedal is in order. It's just a case of practice makes perfect.
Edited by Syndrome on Sunday 1st November 16:57
I must admit I've never driven a BMW that isn't set up perfectly for heel and toe; at least for my feet they're the best cars out there for it. The only Porsches that I've driven are the Boxster S (I tink it was a 1999 model) and several Caymans, all of which were fine for heel and toe.
Of course, brake pads and fluid condition can change the brake pedal sink and thus the suitability of the pedals for heel and toe.
Of course, brake pads and fluid condition can change the brake pedal sink and thus the suitability of the pedals for heel and toe.
I popped out today for another go, and had a bit more success with the 'rolling' foot technique. I wouldn't say it exactly led to smoother driving just yet, but I was able to brake & blip with a bit more control and without having to bury the brake into the mat.
Practice is needed I think. A lot of practice.
Thanks for all your thoughts
Practice is needed I think. A lot of practice.
Thanks for all your thoughts
Having been away from observing for over five years now I am not aware of the latest views but you should not need to heel and toe on the road. You should have finished braking before you complete the gear change, whilst you can be starting to depress the clutch while braking you should then be off the brake and aplying the accelarator at that point to make the reves match as you finally come off the clutch. I find on the road I am not pushing the car that hard as to need to heel and toe. If you are braking that hard then I suggest you are not quite ready for any hazards you may face. Happy to be challenged on this point.
That's a can of worms 
My own opinion is that what you're saying is dead right, but there are many situations where heel and toe is needed; for example a downhill approach into a corner or perhaps to fit in best with the traffic flow. Or maybe perhaps you started in a very high gear - for instance 6th gear 60mph down to 20mph 2nd gear on a dual carriageway turn off - an interim gear will be needed. In summary I'd say that I end up using H&T on about a third of my downchanges. Plus of course there's the possibility of an emergency situation where you may go from braking into a direction change or acceleration (twice in my life I've had to accelerate round an obstacle I'm braking gently for because someone behind me has been going far to fast and not been able to stop in time). Plus of course if you're into performance cars you'll want to do a track day at some point, and there you'll have to heel and toe!
My own opinion is that what you're saying is dead right, but there are many situations where heel and toe is needed; for example a downhill approach into a corner or perhaps to fit in best with the traffic flow. Or maybe perhaps you started in a very high gear - for instance 6th gear 60mph down to 20mph 2nd gear on a dual carriageway turn off - an interim gear will be needed. In summary I'd say that I end up using H&T on about a third of my downchanges. Plus of course there's the possibility of an emergency situation where you may go from braking into a direction change or acceleration (twice in my life I've had to accelerate round an obstacle I'm braking gently for because someone behind me has been going far to fast and not been able to stop in time). Plus of course if you're into performance cars you'll want to do a track day at some point, and there you'll have to heel and toe!Whilst it's true I've never needed heel & toe on the road - I currently can't do it and have never had an accident due to not being able - I don't see anything wrong with learning.
And if you can do it, you'd probably be better off practicing it every now and again in case you do ever need it. Also, given that I don't have access to airfields or the resources for endless track days, for me it's mainly going to be on the road.
I had hoped, perhaps foolishly, that by asking a direct question another h&t thread wouldn't head in this direction! A quick search before my OP revealed the can of worms Rob alludes to, that I tried to avoid, has been opened on here a few times before!
Anyhow, I intend to learn, practice and better my driving ability. And that's going to have to be on the road. When safe to do so of course.
Thanks again to everyone for their input thus far
And if you can do it, you'd probably be better off practicing it every now and again in case you do ever need it. Also, given that I don't have access to airfields or the resources for endless track days, for me it's mainly going to be on the road.
I had hoped, perhaps foolishly, that by asking a direct question another h&t thread wouldn't head in this direction! A quick search before my OP revealed the can of worms Rob alludes to, that I tried to avoid, has been opened on here a few times before!
Anyhow, I intend to learn, practice and better my driving ability. And that's going to have to be on the road. When safe to do so of course.
Thanks again to everyone for their input thus far
No worries Jonny. I'd certainly recommend it (see my examples above). I forgot to add one - there are situations where covering the brake is a good idea. This is all just my opinion though; people will tell you all sorts of things (aka the can of worms!). What you don't want to be doing it braking hard all the time on the road - that's just a sign of poor planning and probably observation too. Nevertheless, H&T is, to me, an essential skill.
RobM77 said:
No worries Jonny. I'd certainly recommend it (see my examples above). I forgot to add one - there are situations where covering the brake is a good idea. This is all just my opinion though; people will tell you all sorts of things (aka the can of worms!). What you don't want to be doing it braking hard all the time on the road - that's just a sign of poor planning and probably observation too. Nevertheless, H&T is, to me, an essential skill.
covering the brake is where your foot should be if not on the accelaratorsofttop said:
RobM77 said:
No worries Jonny. I'd certainly recommend it (see my examples above). I forgot to add one - there are situations where covering the brake is a good idea. This is all just my opinion though; people will tell you all sorts of things (aka the can of worms!). What you don't want to be doing it braking hard all the time on the road - that's just a sign of poor planning and probably observation too. Nevertheless, H&T is, to me, an essential skill.
covering the brake is where your foot should be if not on the accelarator I agree with you; I frequently prepare myself to brake if I'm not accelerating and slowing for a hazard which may turn bad. StressedDave was quoting some figures though saying that the time taken to get from accelerator to brake pedal is so minimal that covering the brake is pointless (SD frequently uses telemetry to analyse driving). I must admit though, I still do it frequently.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff