Excellent Alternative to IAM

[SVS]

Hi all,

If you want advanced training and certification, there is a better bet than the IAM.

TVR Moneypit's recent post about the IAM highlighted the downsides to the IAM. This are other ways.

If you want training and certification, RideDrive offers National Open College Network advanced driving qualifications at levels 2 and 3: www.ridedrive.co.uk/do-inst-table.htm

See 'Nationally Accredited Courses' under: www.ridedrive.co.uk/shop-high-performance.htm

OCN Level 2 Advanced: www.ridedrive.co.uk/do-ocn-t02cn.htm


OCN Level 3 comprises a more advanced and comprehensive course over three days, compared to a single day for Level 2. Either certification brings a 25% insurance discount with Adrian Flux: www.ridedrive.co.uk/adrianflux.htm

These courses are brilliant. I've done Level 3 on the bike and it was really good, not to mention really good fun

Even the IAM itself offers something similar, using its Skill for Life Fast Track route: www.iam.org.uk/eshop/SfL+Fast+Track/

[Phisp]

I've been taking some interest in RideDrive recently. They look like a good next step after completing my IAM course (currently, just waiting on test date).

[johnao]

SVS said:

Hi all,

If you want training and certification, RideDrive offers National Open College Network advanced driving qualifications at levels 2 and 3: www.ridedrive.co.uk/do-inst-table.htm

Although I haven't been on one of their courses I have absolutely no doubt that the RideDrive courses offer value for money, are really good fun and are a very worthwhile experience.
However, regarding certification, I would be grateful if someone could explain how meaningful it is to make comparisons of the kind made by RideDrive on their website whereby they "provide a visual guide as to how the Ride Drive driving courses compare when placed alongside other national qualifications". For example, their website states that their "Ride Drive First Step Advanced Driving Course" is Equivalent to National Qualifications: "NOCN Level-2, NVQ Level-2, GNVQ intermediate, GCSE Grade A-C, National Test in Adult Literacy / Numeracy Level-2."
Every one of these qualifications is highly commendable, but how is it possible to make a comparison between advanced driving skills and the "National Test in Adult Literacy / Numeracy level-2"? In my opinion, in the real world, these comparisons seem to me to be particularly meaningless. Who makes these comparison judgements? Why do RideDrive think that it is worthwhile making the comparison?
I simply pose the question...would one rather have a National Open College Network advanced driving certificate equivalent to "GCSE Grade A-C" or would one rather pass an IAM or RoADAR advanced driving test? You "pay your money and take your choice", I suppose. The IAM is £139, RoADAR slightly less and RideDrive "T021CN The First Step Advanced Driving Course, A National Accredited Level-2" is £327.75. One could of course do all three, it's just the comparisons that RideDrive make that I find a little strange.

[SVS]

Good question regarding certification. I don't know. Presumably the Open College Network has the answer somewhere! www.nocn.org.uk/learners/qualification-levels-and-...

Having said that, what's the value or an IAM or RoSPA certificate? You can simply convert an RoSPA pass into a BTEC by completing the relevant form and paying some money:
www.rospa.org.uk/drivertraining/courses/btec/index...

In my experience of IAM/RoSPA and RideDrive, I found RideDrive better value for money, based on learning per pound. IAM and RoSPA are valuable and rewarding to complete, but only offer amateur instruction. RideDrive (alongside Cadence, UK Advanced, etc) offer top notch professional coaching.

[Kinky]

I've been looking at moving my IAM onto the next level.

I've emailed my local RoSPA group a few times in the past 2-3 months, asking about signing up, etc, etc .... but I've had no replies - not even a 'we'll be in touch soon'

I had seen the RideDrive stuff before (a previous similiar discussion) - but this adds a bit more incentive and interest

[brisel]

Have a look at this:

www.hpc.org.uk

I'm just waiting for an opportunity to do my check run before I get full membership, having done IAM then the gatekeepers course with www.cadence.co.uk

[Mr Grayson]

A note to all those in Kinky's position.

I came straight to RoADAR rather than IAM. Please don't view them as "grades". The IAM do sterling work introducing advanced driving to more drivers than RoADAR, and any driver with an IAM pass is an "advanced" driver. Don't view RoADAR as a step up. I say that as a RoADAR group committee member, with several years membership behind me.

If you want to join RoADAR, we'll be happy to welcome you. Don't feel you have to "do IAM first". We teach the same syllabus, and look for the same results. The major difference, imho, is that we insist you keep up your standard by undertaking re-tests every 3 years.

Good luck.

[brisel]

Would it be fair to say that ROADAR/RoSPA can be a higher "grade" due to a Gold being a higher standard of driving than an IAM "pass?"

[1950trevorP]

Yes - but there exists an IAM "Special Assessment".

which few seem to know about - and fewer undertake.

http://www.iam.org.uk/iammembers/After+the+IAM+Tes...

Edited by 1950trevorP on Monday 12th October 00:04

[Phisp]

brisel said:

Would it be fair to say that ROADAR/RoSPA can be a higher "grade" due to a Gold being a higher standard of driving than an IAM "pass?"

Are you coached to Gold standard or just to Bronze, though?

I'll admit that I have not talked to my local RoSPA group but I believe the coaching you receive will be enough to enable you to pass the test. If you happen to be able to apply the techniques taught to a sufficient skill level then you'd more than likely receive with a Silver/Gold.

[Don]

Phisp said:

brisel said:

Would it be fair to say that ROADAR/RoSPA can be a higher "grade" due to a Gold being a higher standard of driving than an IAM "pass?"

Are you coached to Gold standard or just to Bronze, though?

I'll admit that I have not talked to my local RoSPA group but I believe the coaching you receive will be enough to enable you to pass the test. If you happen to be able to apply the techniques taught to a sufficient skill level then you'd more than likely receive with a Silver/Gold.

I did the ROSPA test after IAM. Done the test twice now. Gold each time. No extra training over and above the IAM - except that I am an IAM Observer and hence do keep in practice...

[ScoobyChris]

brisel said:

Would it be fair to say that ROADAR/RoSPA can be a higher "grade" due to a Gold being a higher standard of driving than an IAM "pass?"

You could do a RoSPA Gold level drive for both, but your IAM grade would not be distinguishable from someone who scraped a pass. Of course, the same could be said for two people who do RoADAR and pass at Gold standard

Chris

[brisel]

1950trevorP said:

Yes - but there exists an IAM "Special Assessment".

which few seem to know about - and fewer undertake.

http://www.iam.org.uk/iammembers/After+the+IAM+Tes...

Me included. If I were inclined, I'd do RoADAR - retesting is an excellent way of preventing devaluation of the brand/badge.

I'll stick with the HPC, however funny that might sound to the disenchanted. I have nowt against the IAM or RoADAR for what they do, it doesn't quite fit with what I want from driving.

[Don]

brisel said:

1950trevorP said:

Yes - but there exists an IAM "Special Assessment".

which few seem to know about - and fewer undertake.

http://www.iam.org.uk/iammembers/After+the+IAM+Tes...

Me included. If I were inclined, I'd do RoADAR - retesting is an excellent way of preventing devaluation of the brand/badge.

I'll stick with the HPC, however funny that might sound to the disenchanted. I have nowt against the IAM or RoADAR for what they do, it doesn't quite fit with what I want from driving.

I maintain a ROSPA membership precisely because I do get re-tested every three years. I want to stay sharp.

I've known a couple of HPC members. To a man they were excellent drivers. But the ethos of the HPC is that of a club. A club for people who love driving and want to do it to the best of their ability. Who want to go on fun drives out, driving holidays, courses etc. Whilst membership is inexpensive getting into the HPC isn't cheap and thereafter joining in on the activities looked like you could spend a fair whack too.

Nothing wrong with that at all. But it's a club for the members.

The IAM/ROSPA are different to that in that they are about improving road safety by getting the maximum possible number of people to improve their driving standard via training that is made as inexpensive as possible. People who scrape a pass at IAM aren't expected to be at the same quality as an HPC driver: they're expected to be safer than they were before making the world a very, very, very slightly better place.

An IAM Observer is expected to put in an impeccable drive, mind.

I have fancied HPC and may join up in due course. The driving opportunities seem excellent.

[brisel]

Fair comment.

[SVS]

Hi Nick,

Mr Grayson said:

A note to all those in Kinky's position ... I came straight to RoADAR rather than IAM.

Nowt wrong with that. It's an excellent route. However, I still maintain that professional coaching is even better still, e.g. aforementioned Cadence and the RideDrive courses.

I was going to title this thread 'Excellent Alternative to IAM/RoSPA', but it seemed a mouthful!

Cheers

Goodness knows we've had enough threads about the relative merits of IAM vs. RoSPA vs. HPC standards! Having done all three in the car, plus two of the three on the bike, I can testify that my standard of motoring depends on all sorts of factors - stress, tiredness, mood ... etc. A certificate is just that: a piece of paper recognising an hour or so's drive.

[Ride Drive]

Hi Guys,

Someone pointed out your thread to me, saying there seems to be a little confusion over the grading of our accredited courses.

johnao said:

However, regarding certification, I would be grateful if someone could explain how meaningful it is to make comparisons of the kind made by RideDrive on their website whereby they "provide a visual guide as to how the Ride Drive driving courses compare when placed alongside other national qualifications". For example, their website states that their "Ride Drive First Step Advanced Driving Course" is Equivalent to National Qualifications: "NOCN Level-2, NVQ Level-2, GNVQ intermediate, GCSE Grade A-C, National Test in Adult Literacy / Numeracy Level-2."
Every one of these qualifications is highly commendable, but how is it possible to make a comparison between advanced driving skills and the "National Test in Adult Literacy / Numeracy level-2"? In my opinion, in the real world, these comparisons seem to me to be particularly meaningless. Who makes these comparison judgements? Why do RideDrive think that it is worthwhile making the comparison?

The reason for the comparison is not to say the driving course has the same content as National Test in Adult Literacy / Numeracy level-2, for example, but to try and explain the value of the course, as most people do not understand what the National Qualification Framework is. Therefore, we feel that for them to be confronted with a simple statement to say the Ride Drive course is a level-2 course, this will be meaningless. The illustration is
there (Ride Drive website) to explain what the different levels are, not what the course content is.

I shall have another look at this as I continue to build a new website for Ride Drive, (to be published by the end of the year) to see if it can be explained any better.

If any of you are still confused, or would like to suggest how you would understand the significance of the course merit, then please let me know.

Just as a foot note, mentioning no names (not allowed to), but when you guys look to other organisations for training, just check out their pedigree - and do it thoroughly.

Jules

[rsv gone!]

I did the advanced bike course about 8 years ago, when they first brought it out.

http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/motorcycle-ocnl3.htm

Gave me a large discount on my bike insurance at the time and was very informative and enjoyable.

[johnao]

Ride Drive said:

Hi Guys,

Someone pointed out your thread to me, saying there seems to be a little confusion over the grading of our accredited courses.

The reason for the comparison is ...to try and explain the value of the course,

Jules

Thank you for your prompt response. I never imagined for one minute that ..."The illustration is there (Ride Drive website) to explain ... what the course content is." It is obvious to any visitor to the website that, as you say, ..."The reason for the comparison is ...to try and explain the value of the course". My point was simply that it is surely meaningless for you, a provider of high quality advanced driver training, to "explain the value" of your advanced driving course by comparing it with, for example, the "National Test in Adult Literacy / Numeracy level-2".
In my opinion, this type of value comparison gives out the wrong signals to someone looking for the high quality advanced driving instruction that you offer. It appears to me to give out a message, a wholly false message I am sure, of a lack of conviction in the product if you feel the need to tell prospective clients that ..."Ride Drive First Step Advanced Driving Course" is Equivalent to National Qualifications: "NOCN Level-2, NVQ Level-2, GNVQ intermediate, GCSE Grade A-C, National Test in Adult Literacy / Numeracy Level-2." It brings to mind the Shakespearean quote: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". I am sure the product would better stand alone as a high quality advanced driving product pure and simple, rather than reduce it, in "value" terms, to the equivalent of "GCSE Grade A-C" It's just my feeling that your attempt to "explain the value" may be misguided. However, it is of course your business and your website, this is just my two pennyworth.

Kind regards

[Mr Grayson]

I think we have to be pragmatic about this. IAM and RoADAR do great work introducing advanced driving to Mr Average. Mr Average driver (and actually it's probably Mr Slightly-Above Average, since they've taken the trouble to take that first step) probably isn't going to fork out the sort of money asked by the likes of Ride Drive and the HPC gatekeepers. That's reserved for the sort of driving nut who frequents forums like these

That's not to say that the aforementioned driving nuts can't also gain a significant step up by doing IAM or RoADAR or both. The professional stuff may be more accelerated, but by the same token, what's learnt quickly, is often quickly forgotten too. Absorbing knowledge over a period of time may work better for some, even most people.