Auto gearboxes
Discussion
I've never owned an Auto before. What is the received wisdom? Do you just plonk it in "D" and get on with it? Do you use the shift to choose the gears yourself?
I tried an SLK a couple of years ago and couldn't get over the way it hunted for gears and always seemed to change up as you approached a hill or corner! Sorry if this is a little basic
I tried an SLK a couple of years ago and couldn't get over the way it hunted for gears and always seemed to change up as you approached a hill or corner! Sorry if this is a little basic
I'm considering an auto SLK though, it doesn't seem too bad.It depends so much on the car in question (what a cop-out!). The bigger/torquier the engine, the more chance you've got of things working out in Drive - simply because there's less need for it to kick-down to get a bit of oomph, and the less of a problem being in a higher gear will cause. Equally the ever-increasing number of gears just seems to result in a higher chance of the box changing gear just when you don't want it to. Mine's a 6-speed with rather a lot of torque; I used to drive it with the paddles for the first year I had it, but have now reverted to running in Sport and it's 95% OK.
Thanks for the replies.
I am waiting for delivery of a new Discovery. I tested one for a weekend and found myself sticking it in D in town, but using the shift out of town. It's a hell of a torquey engine, but all the advanced driving courses I've done in the past have been in manual cars and I just don't like not being in control of the gears! The auto box in the Discovery seemed very nice (for an Auto) but it seems the best an auto can do is try and react to what you are doing rather than what is about to happen (obviously!!). I think this is why I found the SLK box so bad - it just seemed to want to change up exactly when it shouldn't! (Nice car otherwise - I'm not trying to slag off anyone's choice of car!).
What is the teaching in Cadence or RoSPA or equivalent?
I am waiting for delivery of a new Discovery. I tested one for a weekend and found myself sticking it in D in town, but using the shift out of town. It's a hell of a torquey engine, but all the advanced driving courses I've done in the past have been in manual cars and I just don't like not being in control of the gears! The auto box in the Discovery seemed very nice (for an Auto) but it seems the best an auto can do is try and react to what you are doing rather than what is about to happen (obviously!!). I think this is why I found the SLK box so bad - it just seemed to want to change up exactly when it shouldn't! (Nice car otherwise - I'm not trying to slag off anyone's choice of car!).
What is the teaching in Cadence or RoSPA or equivalent?
I've had 3 autos to drive over the last 6 months and in general struggled to keep manual control over the box. At some point it seems that it won't do what you want it to do. If you are relying on it doing whatever you have asked it to do, it's a PITA.
So I have been reduced to letting the box do what it wants, but over-riding it on just a few specific occasions where I know it'll do what I want.
Bert
So I have been reduced to letting the box do what it wants, but over-riding it on just a few specific occasions where I know it'll do what I want.
Bert
Isn't the SLK box one of those which adjusts it's change profile according to how the car is driven? I recall one relative with a very different driving style to his wife complaining that for the first few miles the box had to relearn. It was a PITA allegedly.
No doubt someone more knowledgeable than I would rabbit on about algorithms at this point.
No doubt someone more knowledgeable than I would rabbit on about algorithms at this point.
It really depends on the engine, gearbox and how clever it is, and it's probably best to learn how it works and decide yourself how yu want to use it.
The autobox on my audi has tiptronic function which I tend to only use for going up and down steep hills. Most of the time I leave it in 'D' but there is an 'S' mode which holds the car in a lower gear which is useful if I'm 'making progress'.
A bit of throttle control and concentration can go a long way in getting the best out of an autobox and, like a manual, will give you a smoother ride.
The autobox on my audi has tiptronic function which I tend to only use for going up and down steep hills. Most of the time I leave it in 'D' but there is an 'S' mode which holds the car in a lower gear which is useful if I'm 'making progress'.
A bit of throttle control and concentration can go a long way in getting the best out of an autobox and, like a manual, will give you a smoother ride.
When I did my police driving courses I was told that driving an auto was every bit as much of a skill as driving a manual.
Modern intelligent gearboxes are better than the old type, but it still comes down learning how your particular gearbox works. Once that's done, you can usually use throttle control to make the box change how and where you want it to.
It's just a different style of driving.
Modern intelligent gearboxes are better than the old type, but it still comes down learning how your particular gearbox works. Once that's done, you can usually use throttle control to make the box change how and where you want it to.
It's just a different style of driving.
As others have said it is often best to leave an auto to its own devices in town or when driving gently. For spirited driving you can probably do better.
As someone else has also said, the autobox only knows what you are doing now, not what you are going to do. On a country road bend, if you leave the auto to its own devices, it will stay in a high gear as you enter a bend. Then it will kick down as you accelerate, at which time you may still be cornering. You may well prefer to have a suitable gear engaged before you enter the bend; if so, change down manually before entering the bend. On the next straight, with the Disco automatic, it will change up automatically even if you don't touch the lever again (in the 2.7D it changes up about 4,000 rpm, at which engine speed it is still very civilised). Similarly, if preparing for an overtake engage a suitable gear in advance, so that you are ready to go without delay if the overtake is on, and have more engine braking to drop back if the overtake is not on.
Incidentally, you mentioned the SLK. My wife has a 350, which has gearchange buttons on the steering wheel. On a rural road I tend to hold it in 4th or 5th (of 7). There is also a so-called manual mode. I don't use this mode often, but if you want to hold the gear you are already in you can do so by pressing the M button.
As someone else has also said, the autobox only knows what you are doing now, not what you are going to do. On a country road bend, if you leave the auto to its own devices, it will stay in a high gear as you enter a bend. Then it will kick down as you accelerate, at which time you may still be cornering. You may well prefer to have a suitable gear engaged before you enter the bend; if so, change down manually before entering the bend. On the next straight, with the Disco automatic, it will change up automatically even if you don't touch the lever again (in the 2.7D it changes up about 4,000 rpm, at which engine speed it is still very civilised). Similarly, if preparing for an overtake engage a suitable gear in advance, so that you are ready to go without delay if the overtake is on, and have more engine braking to drop back if the overtake is not on.
Incidentally, you mentioned the SLK. My wife has a 350, which has gearchange buttons on the steering wheel. On a rural road I tend to hold it in 4th or 5th (of 7). There is also a so-called manual mode. I don't use this mode often, but if you want to hold the gear you are already in you can do so by pressing the M button.
Hello, Mark - surely with any automatic if you get the speed down to the right level before you arrive at the bend, which we're usually advised to do, you can apply throttle at that point and the 'box will do the downward gearchange early enough to avoid upsetting the balance of the car as you progress through the bend. What's wrong with that, unless you wish to use trail braking, or something along those lines?
BTW, kickdown doesn't come into play every time you apply reasonable amounts of throttle, does it? I thought it only activates when you press the accelerator pedal beyond the normal limit of its travel, i.e. when you're wanting the maximum possible acceleration. Certainly that's how it used to work on the Jaguars we've had.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
BTW, kickdown doesn't come into play every time you apply reasonable amounts of throttle, does it? I thought it only activates when you press the accelerator pedal beyond the normal limit of its travel, i.e. when you're wanting the maximum possible acceleration. Certainly that's how it used to work on the Jaguars we've had.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
As you say Dave, most autos will kick down on part throttle. There is probably much more part throttle kick down with modern six and seven speed autos than with the Jaguars you used to have.
However, the small amount of throttle which Roadcraft style drivers apply at the entry to a bend in order to maintain speed through the bend is generally not sufficient to cause the box to kick down. However, the progressive acceleration at the exit of the bend will often cause kick down, unless a lower gear has been selected manually beforehand or acceleration used is very gentle.
However, the small amount of throttle which Roadcraft style drivers apply at the entry to a bend in order to maintain speed through the bend is generally not sufficient to cause the box to kick down. However, the progressive acceleration at the exit of the bend will often cause kick down, unless a lower gear has been selected manually beforehand or acceleration used is very gentle.
I leave mine in D unless going down a hill, then 1 or 2 for engine braking. I do notice though at 30, if I stick on the cruise control, it drops a cog, and revs increase (Obviously).
Having had an auto for 10 years now, wouldn't go back to manual. Strangely enough, I was sent to Norway this year, the company gave me a left hand manual transit (Company van) to drive from digs to work every day, absolutely no problem going back to a manual, just once, my left hand hit the door trying to find the stick?
At the end of the day, each to their own.
Having had an auto for 10 years now, wouldn't go back to manual. Strangely enough, I was sent to Norway this year, the company gave me a left hand manual transit (Company van) to drive from digs to work every day, absolutely no problem going back to a manual, just once, my left hand hit the door trying to find the stick?
At the end of the day, each to their own.
waremark said:
As you say Dave, most autos will kick down on part throttle. There is probably much more part throttle kick down with modern six and seven speed autos than with the Jaguars you used to have.
Modern autos with part-throttle kickdown programmes are also likely to know when you're cornering and hold the gear. Even my 9 year old 5-series does that.I don't use the S mode in my car very much at all - the only time being to pull away smartly because I know it'll start in 1st not 2nd as it does in D unless you really clog it. In general driving I just leave it in D but I often use manual too, mostly to hold gears so I can just stick it in 3rd or 4th for a series of bends and know it won't change up or down (unless I run out of revs).
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