do you really need any tution to pass advanced tests???
Discussion
My old man is a very good driver - was the youngest in the country to hold IAM when he passed it and 40 years later passed the ROSPA test to level of gold without any lessons.
He took me out while i was learning and although has never given any formal lessons or advice, will pick me up on stuff if we're in car together. I'd like to take the IAM or ROSPA test but not bothered about taking any lessons, or particularily learning all the exact technical requirements, just want to drive well, safely, sympathetically, reading the road and preempting events, position on road etc...and see how well i do!
i imagine ill be shot down by all those who have taken lessons for years and still can't pass / get past some low level but hopefull some people will see my point....either way just would like to know your views.
cheers
He took me out while i was learning and although has never given any formal lessons or advice, will pick me up on stuff if we're in car together. I'd like to take the IAM or ROSPA test but not bothered about taking any lessons, or particularily learning all the exact technical requirements, just want to drive well, safely, sympathetically, reading the road and preempting events, position on road etc...and see how well i do!
i imagine ill be shot down by all those who have taken lessons for years and still can't pass / get past some low level but hopefull some people will see my point....either way just would like to know your views.
cheers
If your father has given you tuition based on his own standards and experience, then yes you may be able to pass without any formal tuition, but for RoSPA don't be dissappointed if you don't get any higher than a bronze.
In 30 years of examining, I have only had one candidate who passed without any proper instruction, and even then he got a silver and was a long way off attaining the gold standard.
It is not just about being able to put the vehicle on the roght place on the road, it is about your forward observation, planning, hazard perception, postioning, use of signals,use of the system that all determines whether you have the skills, in other words are you the complete package? Without getting at least a little formal tuition, I doubt it bearing in mind that Roadcraft has changed a lot in the last 20 + years as has the Highway Code, and some techniques used by your father when he took his test will have now been superceded.
A few years ago, an agreement was reached between the IAM, RoSPA, Diamond Advanced and the DSA on a common standard at advanced level. It was agreed that the IAM pass would be the equal of the RoSPA bronze although it was accepted that many IAM drivers would be capable of atttaining the higher standard.
So there is a possibility that you may attain the IAM pass without tuition, but you would probably be at the bottom end of the scale, but if you are doing it to simply collect a badge, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
You should be doing it as part of your driver development. Remember the day you think there is nothing more to learn is the day you become a liability, and by going for the test without that more formal input is not really going to achieve anything.
Join a local RoSPA or IAM group, learn the skills properly, understand why we do certain things and then make up your mind, at least that way you will stand a better chance of paying for your test with something worthwhile to show at the end of it, more importantl, you will be a better safer driver.
In 30 years of examining, I have only had one candidate who passed without any proper instruction, and even then he got a silver and was a long way off attaining the gold standard.
It is not just about being able to put the vehicle on the roght place on the road, it is about your forward observation, planning, hazard perception, postioning, use of signals,use of the system that all determines whether you have the skills, in other words are you the complete package? Without getting at least a little formal tuition, I doubt it bearing in mind that Roadcraft has changed a lot in the last 20 + years as has the Highway Code, and some techniques used by your father when he took his test will have now been superceded.
A few years ago, an agreement was reached between the IAM, RoSPA, Diamond Advanced and the DSA on a common standard at advanced level. It was agreed that the IAM pass would be the equal of the RoSPA bronze although it was accepted that many IAM drivers would be capable of atttaining the higher standard.
So there is a possibility that you may attain the IAM pass without tuition, but you would probably be at the bottom end of the scale, but if you are doing it to simply collect a badge, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
You should be doing it as part of your driver development. Remember the day you think there is nothing more to learn is the day you become a liability, and by going for the test without that more formal input is not really going to achieve anything.
Join a local RoSPA or IAM group, learn the skills properly, understand why we do certain things and then make up your mind, at least that way you will stand a better chance of paying for your test with something worthwhile to show at the end of it, more importantl, you will be a better safer driver.
torqueofthedevil said:
cheers, where can i find my loal groups? im based in west yorkshire.
yes im always looking to improve. my original plan was to take the test without any lessons just so i knew how i stood without any help. then have some lessons etc.
but a few lessons first sounds good too.
http://www.wyg-roada.org.uk/yes im always looking to improve. my original plan was to take the test without any lessons just so i knew how i stood without any help. then have some lessons etc.
but a few lessons first sounds good too.
Best of luck with it.
Maybe I'm just too cynical but I find it very hard to believe that anyone could pass a RoSPA test at Gold level without any tuition whatsoever. Even if someone were to study Roadcraft on their own and put it into practice it still seems unlikely. How would you know if you were getting it right? Anyway, if the OP's claim is true then fair play to the man. I remain sceptical.
ETA: Even just riding with someone else and watching would, IMO, count as tuition.
ETA: Even just riding with someone else and watching would, IMO, count as tuition.
Edited by Strangely Brown on Sunday 16th August 16:32
vonhosen said:
It's not just about driving well, it's about doing it in a way they like.
....which is important if you want the bit of paper, but less important if you want to produce a good standard of driving. IMHO some of what 'they' make a fuss about doesn't add anything particularly useful to the practical quality of a drive.Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 16th August 16:48
Best wishes all,
Dave.
do you really need any tution to pass advanced tests???
Not in my case. During freshers week at university, several Rospa affiliated members were advertising advanced driving membership based on free weekly lessons, followed by a driving test. The lessons consisted of 1 hour in the pupils car, followed by 1 hour in the instructors car on the exact same route.
I had one "lesson" (it was more a case of being observed than being taught), to which he said I could go in for the test now and receive silver. My apparent room for improvement were a) a more fluent commentary, b) to hug the curb on right hand bends, and to hug the white line on left hand bends, c) and finally, not to wheelspin off wet roundabouts.
I was 18 at the time, and as we know, all young drivers are dangerous.
Not in my case. During freshers week at university, several Rospa affiliated members were advertising advanced driving membership based on free weekly lessons, followed by a driving test. The lessons consisted of 1 hour in the pupils car, followed by 1 hour in the instructors car on the exact same route.
I had one "lesson" (it was more a case of being observed than being taught), to which he said I could go in for the test now and receive silver. My apparent room for improvement were a) a more fluent commentary, b) to hug the curb on right hand bends, and to hug the white line on left hand bends, c) and finally, not to wheelspin off wet roundabouts.
I was 18 at the time, and as we know, all young drivers are dangerous.
Do you need tuition to pass an Advanced Test?
In theory - no.
In practice I have never known anyone pass one by themselves - although I believe it was standard practice in the early days of the IAM!
I have certainly known talented keen drivers reach pass standard in just four drives: these were the guys, though, that drove a LOT and could practice hard in between drive-outs AND whose enthusiasm for passing meant that they actually read Roadcraft thoroughly several times and put as much as they could into practice by themselves the whole while...
The drivers who did this, in my experience, were exclusively male and young, interestingly.
The fact that young, male drivers are a vastly worse insurance risk behind the wheel certainly doesn't mean that ALL young, male drivers are talentless, reckless idiots: I've had the pleasure of meeting the ones that weren't.
In theory - no.
In practice I have never known anyone pass one by themselves - although I believe it was standard practice in the early days of the IAM!
I have certainly known talented keen drivers reach pass standard in just four drives: these were the guys, though, that drove a LOT and could practice hard in between drive-outs AND whose enthusiasm for passing meant that they actually read Roadcraft thoroughly several times and put as much as they could into practice by themselves the whole while...
The drivers who did this, in my experience, were exclusively male and young, interestingly.
The fact that young, male drivers are a vastly worse insurance risk behind the wheel certainly doesn't mean that ALL young, male drivers are talentless, reckless idiots: I've had the pleasure of meeting the ones that weren't.
GaryST220 said:
do you really need any tution to pass advanced tests???
Not in my case. During freshers week at university, several Rospa affiliated members were advertising advanced driving membership based on free weekly lessons, followed by a driving test. The lessons consisted of 1 hour in the pupils car, followed by 1 hour in the instructors car on the exact same route.
I had one "lesson" (it was more a case of being observed than being taught), to which he said I could go in for the test now and receive silver. My apparent room for improvement were a) a more fluent commentary, b) to hug the curb on right hand bends, and to hug the white line on left hand bends, c) and finally, not to wheelspin off wet roundabouts.
Since that is rather a simplistic summary of advanced driving, it may well be that you were short-changed by your 'instructor'.Not in my case. During freshers week at university, several Rospa affiliated members were advertising advanced driving membership based on free weekly lessons, followed by a driving test. The lessons consisted of 1 hour in the pupils car, followed by 1 hour in the instructors car on the exact same route.
I had one "lesson" (it was more a case of being observed than being taught), to which he said I could go in for the test now and receive silver. My apparent room for improvement were a) a more fluent commentary, b) to hug the curb on right hand bends, and to hug the white line on left hand bends, c) and finally, not to wheelspin off wet roundabouts.
Don said:
Do you need tuition to pass an Advanced Test?
In theory - no.
In practice I have never known anyone pass one by themselves - although I believe it was standard practice in the early days of the IAM!
I did (sort of), but it depends on what you class as tuition. I never had any formal contact with the IAM until the day of my test and I only started getting into it because someone I knew had just passed and I knew how crap they were behind the wheel. I had one "lesson" with a BSM instructor, which I remember as being particularly pointless, but he did point me towards Roadcraft which I obtained and studied with gusto. I then had one drive out with a friend who had also passed (incidentally for the same reason In theory - no.
In practice I have never known anyone pass one by themselves - although I believe it was standard practice in the early days of the IAM!
) and then applied for the test. Was that tuition? Probably. But about as minimal as it gets.That was twenty years ago, and from that point on I was hooked, and have never looked back.
Edited by Strangely Brown on Sunday 16th August 19:30
I'd say that tuition would certainly help, but isn't essential, and effectiveness depends on the teacher. I've only had advanced road tuition from a very good instructor indeed, and yes, it was great, but on the track I was racing for a few years before I had my first tuition session, and to be quite frank I learnt nothing that I hadn't already picked up and mastered from reading books, doing the maths/physics and carefully watching videos on the subject. I think I've sat with 4 or 5 track instructors, and haven't learnt anything from any of them. To come back to the road driving though, I bet if I was to sit with a decent racing coach (as I have a road advanced coach), I would indeed get a lot out of it. So the standard of teaching and your own self awareness have a lot to do with it.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 17th August 11:38
GaryST220 said:
do you really need any tution to pass advanced tests???
Not in my case. During freshers week at university, several Rospa affiliated members were advertising advanced driving membership based on free weekly lessons, followed by a driving test. The lessons consisted of 1 hour in the pupils car, followed by 1 hour in the instructors car on the exact same route.
I had one "lesson" (it was more a case of being observed than being taught), to which he said I could go in for the test now and receive silver. My apparent room for improvement were a) a more fluent commentary, b) to hug the curb on right hand bends, and to hug the white line on left hand bends, c) and finally, not to wheelspin off wet roundabouts.
I was 18 at the time, and as we know, all young drivers are dangerous .
Not in my case. During freshers week at university, several Rospa affiliated members were advertising advanced driving membership based on free weekly lessons, followed by a driving test. The lessons consisted of 1 hour in the pupils car, followed by 1 hour in the instructors car on the exact same route.
I had one "lesson" (it was more a case of being observed than being taught), to which he said I could go in for the test now and receive silver. My apparent room for improvement were a) a more fluent commentary, b) to hug the curb on right hand bends, and to hug the white line on left hand bends, c) and finally, not to wheelspin off wet roundabouts.
I was 18 at the time, and as we know, all young drivers are dangerous .
Rubbish. I've been out in a few of them whilst they are driving and some of them are decent. It's like saying all IAMS are old fogeys who drive at 32 MPH, its just a sweeping statement.
Edited by Flanders. on Tuesday 18th August 11:55
I got a RoSPA silver after studying Roadcraft, reading the highway code and watching a DVD, all of which work had provided. They were offering a free RoSPA test to employees who might drive for work purposes, and with some misdemeanours under my belt in the past was happy to take the offer.
How do I rate myself, 7/10 on average I would say on the whole, with most drivers some way below, but some far far better on the road than I am. Some journeys are better than others of course.
From knowledge of how other colleagues fared in their RoSPA tests (and their apparent standards attitudes to driving), I would say my silver pass was not just given to me, and was a reasonably accurate reflection of my performance on the day, with useful feedback given. However, in another part of the country there seem to be a lot more colleagues getting Gold awards, so on reflection it seems like the assessor there could be more lenient, who knows, or maybe they're better drivers in that area by chance.
How do I rate myself, 7/10 on average I would say on the whole, with most drivers some way below, but some far far better on the road than I am. Some journeys are better than others of course.
From knowledge of how other colleagues fared in their RoSPA tests (and their apparent standards attitudes to driving), I would say my silver pass was not just given to me, and was a reasonably accurate reflection of my performance on the day, with useful feedback given. However, in another part of the country there seem to be a lot more colleagues getting Gold awards, so on reflection it seems like the assessor there could be more lenient, who knows, or maybe they're better drivers in that area by chance.
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