Don Palmer/Mark Hales Masterclass

[Microbubbles]

Hi Guys

Hav not been on here for a long time, but have just bought a 996 GT3 and need to learn how to drive it. Any memebers on the foru had direct experience of the Masterclass with Don and Mark. I have heard really good thimgs about them and would love to hear more...............

Micro

[Vaux]

Microbubbles said:

Hi Guys

Hav not been on here for a long time, but have just bought a 996 GT3 and need to learn how to drive it. Any memebers on the foru had direct experience of the Masterclass with Don and Mark. I have heard really good thimgs about them and would love to hear more...............

Micro

I think stefan1 has attended.

[waremark]

And Stefan1 wrote it up very fully - it was probably on ADUK rather than here. He was impressed by the Masterclass.

[stefan1]

waremark said:

And Stefan1 wrote it up very fully - it was probably on ADUK rather than here. He was impressed by the Masterclass.

Here is my write up.

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t...

It's a couple of years since I took the course, so it's possible the format has changed, but overall I'd recommend it without hesitation. Both Don and Mark are excellent, and complementary, coaches.

Kind regards

Steve

[ipsg.glf]

The thing I cannot quite get my head round is just how does learning how to drive your vehicle 'on the limit' help with road driving when you should not be driving anywhere near 'the limit' when on the road.

Isn't there a danger that such techniques encourage drivers to push the envelope of safety somewhat?

A mate of mine has just finished his 3 week standard response driving course. He tells me that their time on the skid pan was about 1 hour each.

[stefan1]

ipsg.glf said:

The thing I cannot quite get my head round is just how does learning how to drive your vehicle 'on the limit' help with road driving when you should not be driving anywhere near 'the limit' when on the road.

Isn't there a danger that such techniques encourage drivers to push the envelope of safety somewhat?

A mate of mine has just finished his 3 week standard response driving course. He tells me that their time on the skid pan was about 1 hour each.

Speaking personally, I did the Hales / Palmer Masterclass to improve my circuit driving. I was particularly keen to learn from Mark his technique of creating a mental video / picture of the ideal line, to facilitate faster learning of a new circuit and to help keep the eyes up and not focused on the turning point / apex etc (which I now look at using peripheral vision only).

I am certain, however, that my road driving has benefited from all the circuit work I have done. In fact, I have had clear feedback from a couple of Class 1 / Advanced police drivers who have seen my driving develop over the years that this is so (both are advocates of the benefits of circuit work for road driving). I don't drive any faster; I don't drive any closer to the limit - what I do is steer better (with greater feel), particularly on faster corners, balance the car better and generally stay further away from any grip limit (because I am better at optimally setting up the car).

All of this can be taught on the road, of course - I am not suggesting for one moment track work is a pre-requisite for learning those skills. But my track work - including the coaching from Palmer / Hales - has certainly accelerated my learning. I could also learn these skills at higher speeds, not appropriate to the road. So when I then drive on the road at lower speeds, everything becomes much easier.

I do agree that one has to be careful to avoid building over confidence around limit handling into road driving, and I am personally an advocate of learning Roadcraft first, getting the System down pat, before trying to develop one's driving with off road / track work. But then again, it all depends on the individual - with the right attitude, there is no risk of over confidence or inappropriate transfer of skills from track to road.

Steve

[ipsg.glf]

Thanks, Steve, for that insight. Very useful.

[flemke]

ipsg.glf said:

The thing I cannot quite get my head round is just how does learning how to drive your vehicle 'on the limit' help with road driving when you should not be driving anywhere near 'the limit' when on the road.

Isn't there a danger that such techniques encourage drivers to push the envelope of safety somewhat?

A mate of mine has just finished his 3 week standard response driving course. He tells me that their time on the skid pan was about 1 hour each.

I'd say that it has at least a couple of benefits that do not relate to driving like a loon on public roads.
First, by being comfortable driving "at" (more like, "near") the limit, you are gradually more able to manage the car itself with less mental effort. This frees more mental space for spotting and dealing with social hazards.
Second, although 99.99% of the time public road driving does not require limit handling skills, at any time you might come across an especially slippery bit of road (rain after long dry spell, spilt diesel, black ice), and then you could find yourself unintentionally at the limit.
Also, having a sense of the car's balance and the four rubber patches that connect it to the surface of the earth can't be a bad thing, and it can add to the pleasure of driving.