Clipped by an ambulance on blue's n two's!
Discussion
From personal experience 
Get the phone book out in the morning, and find the number of your local Ambulance Service's Headquarters. Phone them and speak to the fleet manager, or equivalent.
Our insurance policies are so huge that there's no point quibbling unless it's a clear non-fault incident. Chances are that they'll either agree over the phone that their insurance will cover your damage, or they'll ask you to get it sorted and send them the invoice.
Seriously though, being hit by an NHS vehicle is probably the luckiest accident you're likely to have...
Get the phone book out in the morning, and find the number of your local Ambulance Service's Headquarters. Phone them and speak to the fleet manager, or equivalent.
Our insurance policies are so huge that there's no point quibbling unless it's a clear non-fault incident. Chances are that they'll either agree over the phone that their insurance will cover your damage, or they'll ask you to get it sorted and send them the invoice.
Seriously though, being hit by an NHS vehicle is probably the luckiest accident you're likely to have...
HellDiver said:
Starfighter said:
Are emergency vehicles exempt from the requirement to stop following an RTI?
Hmm...guy in the back suffering cardiac arrest, or bloke on the street with a broken indicator lens. What do YOU think?However they should have informed their control room or said they would be back. Neither they or the police etc are exempt but commons sense should prevail.
I just had to join to answer this question!
An ambulance, whether on a blue light run or on a 'normal' drive must stop after an RTC. Control would be informed and another ambulance would be despatched to the scene to take the patient in.
However, if it caused an accident and wasn't actually in it and it was on a blue light run, then it doesn't have to stop.
An ambulance, whether on a blue light run or on a 'normal' drive must stop after an RTC. Control would be informed and another ambulance would be despatched to the scene to take the patient in.
However, if it caused an accident and wasn't actually in it and it was on a blue light run, then it doesn't have to stop.
Edited by JumboBeef on Sunday 5th July 09:41
JumboBeef said:
I just had to join to answer this question!
An ambulance, whether on a blue light run or on a 'normal' drive must stop after an RTC. Control would be informed and another ambulance would be despatched to the scene to take the patient in.
However, if it caused an accident and wasn't actually in it and it was on a blue light run, then it doesn't have to stop.
That's a decision that someone has made by choice, it's not necessarily a legal position.An ambulance, whether on a blue light run or on a 'normal' drive must stop after an RTC. Control would be informed and another ambulance would be despatched to the scene to take the patient in.
However, if it caused an accident and wasn't actually in it and it was on a blue light run, then it doesn't have to stop.
Edited by JumboBeef on Sunday 5th July 09:41
The Road Traffic Act says "If owing to the presence of a motor vehicle......". It doesn't require the vehicle to actually physically collide with another for there to be a requirement for it to stop in order to comply with the law.
Of course the rigid distinction & rationale you've made could be open to question.
ie
So are you saying that you wouldn't stop at a serious PI where you've had no physical contact, but you would where wing mirrors are clipped ever so slightly causing very minor damage ?
There are so many grey areas in emergency driving, and this is one of them.
If you are involved (ie: contact made) then by law you must stop. If no contact, then you do not have to stop. Having said that, I doubt if I would stop if I clipped mirrors whilst on blue lights and I am sure I would stop if I wasn't actually in contact with anything but a major RTC happened right in front/behind/besides me.
If you are involved (ie: contact made) then by law you must stop. If no contact, then you do not have to stop. Having said that, I doubt if I would stop if I clipped mirrors whilst on blue lights and I am sure I would stop if I wasn't actually in contact with anything but a major RTC happened right in front/behind/besides me.
Edited by JumboBeef on Sunday 5th July 14:54
JumboBeef said:
There are so many grey areas in emergency driving, and this is one of them.
If you are involved (ie: contact made) then by law you must stop. If no contact, then you do not have to stop.
As I say that is not a distinction made in the Road Traffic Act & your obligations under it. If you are involved (ie: contact made) then by law you must stop. If no contact, then you do not have to stop.
If owing to the presence of your motor vehicle on a road a qualifying accident occurs, then the requirement under the Road Traffic Act is the same whether you actually made contact or not.
If an ambulance went through a red light (slowly and carefully) and car #1 (who had a green light) stopped to let it pass, and then car #2, who wasn't watching the road but only saw a green light, ran into the back of car #1, who was involved in the accident? The ambulance, car #1 or car #2? (or all of them?)
You could say the ambulance was involved in the accident but it will not stop*, which is correct under the guidelines given to emergency drivers.
You could say the ambulance was involved in the accident but it will not stop*, which is correct under the guidelines given to emergency drivers.
- unless someone is hurt.
Edited by JumboBeef on Sunday 5th July 15:28
JumboBeef said:
If an ambulance went through a red light (slowly and carefully) and car #1 (who had a green light) stopped to let it pass, and then car #2, who wasn't watching the road but only saw a green light, ran into the back of car #1, who was involved in the accident? The ambulance, car #1 or car #2? (or all of them?)
You could say the ambulance was involved in the accident but it will not stop*, which is correct under the guidelines given to emergency drivers.
its not the ambulances fault, its driver #2 fault for not looking, and its always the driver behind in situations like that.You could say the ambulance was involved in the accident but it will not stop*, which is correct under the guidelines given to emergency drivers.
- unless someone is hurt.
Edited by JumboBeef on Sunday 5th July 15:28
Ambulance has nothing to do with that, the ambulance could be replaced with no end of things; someone walking out infront of the car etc.
Ambo's etc are under the same legislation that requires everybody else to stop following an argument. Theres no special dispensation specifically for emergency response vehicles.
Reason why? Because its written into the normal legislation that it may not always be appropriate for someone to stop following an RTC, and in which case they need to report it to the police as soon as practicable and in no case in more than 24 hours.
Reason why? Because its written into the normal legislation that it may not always be appropriate for someone to stop following an RTC, and in which case they need to report it to the police as soon as practicable and in no case in more than 24 hours.
JumboBeef said:
If an ambulance went through a red light (slowly and carefully) and car #1 (who had a green light) stopped to let it pass, and then car #2, who wasn't watching the road but only saw a green light, ran into the back of car #1, who was involved in the accident? The ambulance, car #1 or car #2? (or all of them?)
You could say the ambulance was involved in the accident but it will not stop*, which is correct under the guidelines given to emergency drivers.
The ambulance is involved in the collision. You could say the ambulance was involved in the accident but it will not stop*, which is correct under the guidelines given to emergency drivers.
- unless someone is hurt.
The Road Traffic Act applies to them, just as it does to all emergency service vehicles.
170(1) If, owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place an accident occurs whereby-
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that mechanically propelled vehicle, OR
(b) damage is caused-
(i) to a vehicle other than that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, OR
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, OR
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road or place in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
170(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.
170(3) If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.
170(4) A person who fails to comply with the above requirements is guilty of an offence.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 7th July 18:46
Seeing as I set this hare running, here's my view.
I would expect the crew top report the incident by radio straight away (time date stamp on the radio recording) with a location and then an immediate follow up report once the blue light run was over.
I would hope that the incident would be investigated by the service in question to determine cause and any procedureal / training gaps.
I would wish that the other driver(s) involved would be sensible enough to contact the service in question rather than reporting a "failure to stop".
I would expect that the CPS would throw out any papers presented to them as not being in the public interest.
I asked the question as I was not sure what the legal position was. Now I know, thanks.
I would expect the crew top report the incident by radio straight away (time date stamp on the radio recording) with a location and then an immediate follow up report once the blue light run was over.
I would hope that the incident would be investigated by the service in question to determine cause and any procedureal / training gaps.
I would wish that the other driver(s) involved would be sensible enough to contact the service in question rather than reporting a "failure to stop".
I would expect that the CPS would throw out any papers presented to them as not being in the public interest.
I asked the question as I was not sure what the legal position was. Now I know, thanks.
vonhosen said:
The ambulance is involved in the collision.
The Road Traffic Act applies to them, just as it does to all emergency service vehicles.
170(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop
As I said:The Road Traffic Act applies to them, just as it does to all emergency service vehicles.
170(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop
JumboBeef said:
There are so many grey areas in emergency driving
If I stopped on a blue light run because two cars had run into each other (but not into me) after one stopped to let me through a red light, then I'd be for the high jump, and papers like the DM would have a field day 
JumboBeef said:
vonhosen said:
The ambulance is involved in the collision.
The Road Traffic Act applies to them, just as it does to all emergency service vehicles.
170(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop
As I said:The Road Traffic Act applies to them, just as it does to all emergency service vehicles.
170(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop
JumboBeef said:
There are so many grey areas in emergency driving
If I stopped on a blue light run because two cars had run into each other (but not into me) after one stopped to let me through a red light, then I'd be for the high jump, and papers like the DM would have a field day You'll do what you do.
I'm just telling you what the law says & it doesn't say you are exempt from stopping for vicinity only collision in emergency vehicles.
vonhosen said:
170(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.
170(3) If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.
170(4) A person who fails to comply with the above requirements is guilty of an offence.
Sorry for a slight hijack...VH does that mean that 170(2) does *not* have to be complied with as (3) gives an alternative course of action? Then (4) means that there is only an offence if you don't do (2) and then don't do (3).170(3) If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.
170(4) A person who fails to comply with the above requirements is guilty of an offence.
Bert
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