Discussion
I know this has probably been done to death, but I'm going to launch in anyway.
I'm buying my first RWD car this week and wanting some tips from the years of motoring knowledge herein, as I don't want to put it into a hedge.
Having only owned FWD cars, are there really things to be worried about? I am not, in my opinion, hamfisted or foolish, I've no points or crashes and few near misses, but I am 23 and relatively inexperienced.
All of this because my work colleague said 'Oh be careful, MX-5s are rear wheel drive'.
I'm buying my first RWD car this week and wanting some tips from the years of motoring knowledge herein, as I don't want to put it into a hedge.
Having only owned FWD cars, are there really things to be worried about? I am not, in my opinion, hamfisted or foolish, I've no points or crashes and few near misses, but I am 23 and relatively inexperienced.
All of this because my work colleague said 'Oh be careful, MX-5s are rear wheel drive'.
RWD isn't scary, just stay smooth and feel what the car is doing - MX5's are very good at communicating whats going on, and are also very balanced and forgiving if you overstep the mark a little. Oh and don't grip the steering wheel too tight, a more relaxed grip lets you make the most of the feedback coming through.
When its slippery don't get on the gas too hard, too early - straighten the car up first. Once you get more experience you'll enjoy getting on the gas harder, earlier deliberately and playing with the balance of the car but for starters don't get too cocky about it.
When its slippery don't get on the gas too hard, too early - straighten the car up first. Once you get more experience you'll enjoy getting on the gas harder, earlier deliberately and playing with the balance of the car but for starters don't get too cocky about it.
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 26th May 11:55
Some excellent advice from Ben. Being sensitive to what the car's doing is the most important thing.I expect you'll soon prefer RWD to FWD :-) On the public road where balance and smoothness rule and committed corner entries are rarely possible, rear drive makes so much more sense and is far more rewarding. Enjoy! :-)
In the dry you'll barely notice which set of wheels a standard MX5 drives. If it's wet and you've got an LSD things can be fun, but I mean that in the literal sense rather than the forboding one!
RWD is not inherently more difficult or in any way scary.
Right, now we've got that out the way... I would say just do all the things you'd normally do - be smooth with all your inputs (particularly throttle in slippery conditions), feel for feedback telling you what's going on and build up slowly. You could get in a 427 Cobra and drive it to the shops at 30mph, it's only when you start pushing a bit that potential problems arise. The good news is that when this does happen the MX5 is about the most flattering, controllable car out there.
I would strongly advise finding somewhere you can deliberately find the car's limits rather than living in fear of them. In the wet you can get enough slip to get an idea what it's like coming out of T-junctions and going around smallish roundabouts without going fast enough to really get yourself into trouble. Better still, of course, is a car control day at a track or airfield with nothing at all to hit. The bottom line is you don't want your first experience of skid correction to be in an emergency.
RWD is not inherently more difficult or in any way scary.Right, now we've got that out the way... I would say just do all the things you'd normally do - be smooth with all your inputs (particularly throttle in slippery conditions), feel for feedback telling you what's going on and build up slowly. You could get in a 427 Cobra and drive it to the shops at 30mph, it's only when you start pushing a bit that potential problems arise. The good news is that when this does happen the MX5 is about the most flattering, controllable car out there.
I would strongly advise finding somewhere you can deliberately find the car's limits rather than living in fear of them. In the wet you can get enough slip to get an idea what it's like coming out of T-junctions and going around smallish roundabouts without going fast enough to really get yourself into trouble. Better still, of course, is a car control day at a track or airfield with nothing at all to hit. The bottom line is you don't want your first experience of skid correction to be in an emergency.
Thanks for all your tips guys, I'm very appreciative.
I am looking to book at least a RideDrive day soon, as they can lead to an insurance discount and get on a airfield day or some skid pan training. I don't think it can hurt to get more and more training.
Thanks again for the reassurance and tips.
I am looking to book at least a RideDrive day soon, as they can lead to an insurance discount and get on a airfield day or some skid pan training. I don't think it can hurt to get more and more training.
Thanks again for the reassurance and tips.
As a 200SX driver of 3ish years now, I think I can offer a little perpective on this.
RWD as previously stated is not dangerous, not scary, and not difficult.
Daily sensible driving is entirely uneffected.
When you want to inject some fun in to driving, I am not saying there isn't enjoyment in normal daily driving, but it is possible for it to be more fun as we all know, by just applying some more enthusiasm...
Good tyres, and I dont mean just new, I mean good, are important to the feel and grip. Dont save money on these, get good ones. They're the only thing keeping you on the road, so spending £5 on them, and £100 on shiny wheels and go faster bits is a real false econemy.
Make sure the cars alignment is spot on, all 4 wheels. There's nothing like unaligned wheels to ruin the feel, and in some cases even make the car dangerous and unpredictable to take the enjoyment out of driving. Lightweight rwd cars are more likely to suffer through this than boring fwd cars engineered to be dull and easy.
When the weather is bad, take it easy, at least for the first few months. Do not put power on before you have straightened the wheel, or one wet slimey road will catch you out, and you'll feel right stupid facing the wrong way round a roundabout
It's not that easily done if you have some feel for the car, but plently of 200SX drivers claim their cars just lose grip for no reason and smash into the kerb
The best thing you can do really is just drive it, get lots of practice, and it'll become natural and instinctive what to do in any situation. Just beware the quest for more power, it's addictive!
RWD as previously stated is not dangerous, not scary, and not difficult.
Daily sensible driving is entirely uneffected.
When you want to inject some fun in to driving, I am not saying there isn't enjoyment in normal daily driving, but it is possible for it to be more fun as we all know, by just applying some more enthusiasm...
Good tyres, and I dont mean just new, I mean good, are important to the feel and grip. Dont save money on these, get good ones. They're the only thing keeping you on the road, so spending £5 on them, and £100 on shiny wheels and go faster bits is a real false econemy.
Make sure the cars alignment is spot on, all 4 wheels. There's nothing like unaligned wheels to ruin the feel, and in some cases even make the car dangerous and unpredictable to take the enjoyment out of driving. Lightweight rwd cars are more likely to suffer through this than boring fwd cars engineered to be dull and easy.
When the weather is bad, take it easy, at least for the first few months. Do not put power on before you have straightened the wheel, or one wet slimey road will catch you out, and you'll feel right stupid facing the wrong way round a roundabout
It's not that easily done if you have some feel for the car, but plently of 200SX drivers claim their cars just lose grip for no reason and smash into the kerb The best thing you can do really is just drive it, get lots of practice, and it'll become natural and instinctive what to do in any situation. Just beware the quest for more power, it's addictive!
Chris71 said:
Maybe I should take some of my own advice on this thread! Quite happy with just about anything front engined RWD, but I'm umming and arring currently as to whether I'm too much of a wimp for a (mid-engined) Elise! One little lift mid corner and... 
Still not as scary as people make out. I did a track day in my Elise in torrential rain and didn't have any issues at all, despite driving on the limit all day. I've also driven a Noble, Esprit, NSX and I had an MR2 for two years. I also currently race a Formula Renault. Mid engined cars just feel different, I wouldn't say they cause any concern.I drive two moderately powerful rear wheel drive cars...as well as my front wheel drive shopping car. Have done for years.
If you are crap at driving and habitually smash the controls, stand on the brakes, stamp on the gas, and do it all mid-corner you are f
ked and the car is going to be in the hedge before you can say "Nigel".
On the other hand if you are smooth and gentle on all the controls, do your braking and gearchanging in straight lines and smoothly come off the brakes before coaxing the car gently into the corner prior to squeezing the throttle lovingly on the way out you will be absolutely fine.
When it's wet and slippery don't ignore it - you'll need to go slower and, as at all times, smoothly.
There is little in the automotive world more rewarding than pedalling a RWD car briskly but smoothly and it's surprisingly easy to become good enough to completely safe and yet satisfyingly difficult to become truly excellent at it.
Enjoy the experience. Don't fear the car.
If you are crap at driving and habitually smash the controls, stand on the brakes, stamp on the gas, and do it all mid-corner you are f
ked and the car is going to be in the hedge before you can say "Nigel".On the other hand if you are smooth and gentle on all the controls, do your braking and gearchanging in straight lines and smoothly come off the brakes before coaxing the car gently into the corner prior to squeezing the throttle lovingly on the way out you will be absolutely fine.
When it's wet and slippery don't ignore it - you'll need to go slower and, as at all times, smoothly.
There is little in the automotive world more rewarding than pedalling a RWD car briskly but smoothly and it's surprisingly easy to become good enough to completely safe and yet satisfyingly difficult to become truly excellent at it.
Enjoy the experience. Don't fear the car.
Don said:
I drive two moderately powerful rear wheel drive cars...as well as my front wheel drive shopping car. Have done for years.
If you are crap at driving and habitually smash the controls, stand on the brakes, stamp on the gas, and do it all mid-corner you are fked and the car is going to be in the hedge before you can say "Nigel".
On the other hand if you are smooth and gentle on all the controls, do your braking and gearchanging in straight lines and smoothly come off the brakes before coaxing the car gently into the corner prior to squeezing the throttle lovingly on the way out you will be absolutely fine.
When it's wet and slippery don't ignore it - you'll need to go slower and, as at all times, smoothly.
There is little in the automotive world more rewarding than pedalling a RWD car briskly but smoothly and it's surprisingly easy to become good enough to completely safe and yet satisfyingly difficult to become truly excellent at it.
Enjoy the experience. Don't fear the car.
If you are crap at driving and habitually smash the controls, stand on the brakes, stamp on the gas, and do it all mid-corner you are f
ked and the car is going to be in the hedge before you can say "Nigel".On the other hand if you are smooth and gentle on all the controls, do your braking and gearchanging in straight lines and smoothly come off the brakes before coaxing the car gently into the corner prior to squeezing the throttle lovingly on the way out you will be absolutely fine.
When it's wet and slippery don't ignore it - you'll need to go slower and, as at all times, smoothly.
There is little in the automotive world more rewarding than pedalling a RWD car briskly but smoothly and it's surprisingly easy to become good enough to completely safe and yet satisfyingly difficult to become truly excellent at it.
Enjoy the experience. Don't fear the car.
It frustrates me when people who bander about the opinion that RWD is in some way dangerous or not as desirable as FWD. As Don says, if you can drive properly then on the public road it can be far more rewarding than FWD. That applies if it's wet or dry!if your a tit of a driver then RWD is not the way to go,
If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
plumAJP said:
if your a tit of a driver then RWD is not the way to go,
If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
well put. Every on-paper situation that cars get themselves into just seems to point to rear drive being the better layout. the only exceptions that I can think of are slow speed slippery conditions, where weight transfer doesn't get the grip onto the rear wheels, like snow, ice, mud etc. Mid-engined and RWD is of course a way round this, but 4WD is even better. For the road or track though, it's RWD every time for me - FWD and 4WD just don't cut it on tarmac. However, I agree, if you're a clumsy or inattentive driver then RWD may cease to be safer and actually be more dangerous.I need to be careful though, I don't want to start another FWD vs RWD thread!!! I'd rather talk about aeroplanes on conveyor belts
Crikey!
I leave you all alone for 5 minutes and look what happens! Just to clarify, it wasn't me who said that RWD was dangerous, it was my colleague.
Oh and I'm loving the MX-5, its a great little car. I'm a little dissapointed that I've only been called a hairdresser twice though...
I leave you all alone for 5 minutes and look what happens! Just to clarify, it wasn't me who said that RWD was dangerous, it was my colleague.
Oh and I'm loving the MX-5, its a great little car. I'm a little dissapointed that I've only been called a hairdresser twice though...
nakedninja said:
Crikey!
I leave you all alone for 5 minutes and look what happens! Just to clarify, it wasn't me who said that RWD was dangerous, it was my colleague.
Oh and I'm loving the MX-5, its a great little car. I'm a little dissapointed that I've only been called a hairdresser twice though...
I leave you all alone for 5 minutes and look what happens! Just to clarify, it wasn't me who said that RWD was dangerous, it was my colleague.
Oh and I'm loving the MX-5, its a great little car. I'm a little dissapointed that I've only been called a hairdresser twice though...
Oh yes, I wasn't inferring it was you that said it 
Glad you like the MX5
plumAJP said:
if your a tit of a driver then RWD is not the way to go,
If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
What is the problem with FWD then, torque steer? Most of the time I can't tell the difference on the road. If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
Dr Jekyll said:
plumAJP said:
if your a tit of a driver then RWD is not the way to go,
If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
What is the problem with FWD then, torque steer? Most of the time I can't tell the difference on the road. If your sensible and want to learn then RWD is the best.
I would never get a FWD fast car now, absolutley pointless and for straight line drivers who love launch control and drag strips, RWD or 4WD is the only way forward.
you get the best of all worlds.
Putting those two things together - if you can balance a car throughout a corner properly at road speeds, it's rear wheel drive; if the car retains a nose led balance through a corner, it's front wheel drive. This is noticeably in every corner, and then after 10,000 miles if you look at the tyre you can tell what's been going on - in a FWD road car the front tyres will be more worn than the rears (indicative of the imbalance), whereas in a RWD car all four tyres should wear at the same rate. That's dependent on how you drive of course, but a good driver won't be able to wear fromt and rear at once. The only way to neutralise a front wheel drive car is through momentum on turn-in, which isn't safe on the road in 90% of corners.
This video is good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26eSsBcDwCg She's actually wrong in her initial description though, it's not just at the limit that the differences come out, it's a continuous spectrum of handling balance right down to 1mph (obviously - no handling traits just "appear" at a certain speed, they're present throughout and just become more visible as slip angles get greater).
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