Few observe speed limits. Those doing so? Doddery Doris?
Discussion
As I replied to BertBert in the IAM thread - it occurred to me that I would be taking that thread off topic.
BertBert suggested that so few drivers observe the speed limit that those who do are considered to be driving too slowly by others.
Why? Is this a question of attitude? Or a belief that speed limits are only for learner drivers and "blue rinse IAM brigade".
Does this perception of "too slow" apply to 20/30 mph roads? Or 40-60mph roads?
What about the actual road traffic conditions?
We will leave motorways out of the discussion as I think these should be upped to 80mph to bring into line with rest of Europe anyway.
BertBert suggested that so few drivers observe the speed limit that those who do are considered to be driving too slowly by others.
Why? Is this a question of attitude? Or a belief that speed limits are only for learner drivers and "blue rinse IAM brigade".
Does this perception of "too slow" apply to 20/30 mph roads? Or 40-60mph roads?
What about the actual road traffic conditions?
We will leave motorways out of the discussion as I think these should be upped to 80mph to bring into line with rest of Europe anyway.
It's an attitude problem. And yes it applies on all roads.
Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
Edited by Munter on Monday 18th May 09:09
Hi All
Has anyone considered that drivers follow so closely because they don't want to be slowed down by those that break the law and force them back in the queue by overtaking? The actions are not aimed at depriving the overtaker, just at preserving their own status quo.
I frequently make a 30 mile daytime journey on an A road. There is one long straight where drivers pass near the beginning of that journey. They then stay in a queue for 45 minutes, stressed and looking for overtakes that are never going to happen and arrive at the other end maybe 10 seconds before I do, but how many bother to run to their cars at home or dash out at the other end, which is surely what would happen if they were truly in a hurry and would probably see a greater reduction in journey time than speeding.
Few drivers seem to think or care about the social effect of their illegal actions, particularly those that show that law breaking has perceived or actual benefits. Just like littering or rowdy behaviour it seems innocuous and from the individual's point of view an expression of freedom but has a societal effect as explained in the first paragraph.
I imagine there will be many that disagree with my post however as they grow older their attitude is likely to change. Just like the idea of kissing a girl may seem horrible to a ten year old boy when you get older it doesn't seem so bad after all. Although there are some of course who maintain their less mature attitudes and we all know who they are!
That's not to say I don't enjoy driving quickly and the thrill of acceleration, but I use techniques that allow me to remain within the law. By sticking religiously to urban speed limits when I reach a national speed limit there is generally a decent distance to the queue of cars that have be driving through villages at 35 - 40. This often leaves me to enjoy a minute or so at NSL. Invariably those that have been 'held up' through the village are left behind and I rejoin the queue looking forward to the next 30 limit or red traffic light.
When engaging a series of bends, a roundabout, or a 'challenging' bend that I am familiar with, rather than positioning for the 'racing' line I stay more or less parallel with the kerb line to experience greater lateral accelerative G forces.
Rather than complaining about others I use a style that provides me entertainment rather than frustration and potential licence points. If only the IAM taught youngsters things like this, and vehicle dynamics like I do they might get a few more on board.
Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
Has anyone considered that drivers follow so closely because they don't want to be slowed down by those that break the law and force them back in the queue by overtaking? The actions are not aimed at depriving the overtaker, just at preserving their own status quo.
I frequently make a 30 mile daytime journey on an A road. There is one long straight where drivers pass near the beginning of that journey. They then stay in a queue for 45 minutes, stressed and looking for overtakes that are never going to happen and arrive at the other end maybe 10 seconds before I do, but how many bother to run to their cars at home or dash out at the other end, which is surely what would happen if they were truly in a hurry and would probably see a greater reduction in journey time than speeding.
Few drivers seem to think or care about the social effect of their illegal actions, particularly those that show that law breaking has perceived or actual benefits. Just like littering or rowdy behaviour it seems innocuous and from the individual's point of view an expression of freedom but has a societal effect as explained in the first paragraph.
I imagine there will be many that disagree with my post however as they grow older their attitude is likely to change. Just like the idea of kissing a girl may seem horrible to a ten year old boy when you get older it doesn't seem so bad after all. Although there are some of course who maintain their less mature attitudes and we all know who they are!
That's not to say I don't enjoy driving quickly and the thrill of acceleration, but I use techniques that allow me to remain within the law. By sticking religiously to urban speed limits when I reach a national speed limit there is generally a decent distance to the queue of cars that have be driving through villages at 35 - 40. This often leaves me to enjoy a minute or so at NSL. Invariably those that have been 'held up' through the village are left behind and I rejoin the queue looking forward to the next 30 limit or red traffic light.
When engaging a series of bends, a roundabout, or a 'challenging' bend that I am familiar with, rather than positioning for the 'racing' line I stay more or less parallel with the kerb line to experience greater lateral accelerative G forces.
Rather than complaining about others I use a style that provides me entertainment rather than frustration and potential licence points. If only the IAM taught youngsters things like this, and vehicle dynamics like I do they might get a few more on board.
Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
Martin A said:
Has anyone considered that drivers follow so closely because they don't want to be slowed down by those that break the law and force them back in the queue by overtaking? The actions are not aimed at depriving the overtaker, just at preserving their own status quo.
I frequently make a 30 mile daytime journey on an A road. There is one long straight where drivers pass near the beginning of that journey. They then stay in a queue for 45 minutes, stressed and looking for overtakes that are never going to happen and arrive at the other end maybe 10 seconds before I do,
This sounds a bit like the 'overtaking is queue jumping' philosophy.I frequently make a 30 mile daytime journey on an A road. There is one long straight where drivers pass near the beginning of that journey. They then stay in a queue for 45 minutes, stressed and looking for overtakes that are never going to happen and arrive at the other end maybe 10 seconds before I do,
How do you know they are 'stressed'? How do you know they will not fnid further overtaking opportunities? They are not all making exactly the same journey as you.
If you come up behind another vehicle then you are clearly going faster than them, so in general you should take the first safe overtaking opportunity. Looking for overtakes is not stressful, it's actually a good discipline because it encourages you to look a long way ahead. As a passenger I can always tell when the driver has given up looking for overtakes, they slump in the seat, a hand comes off the wheel and starts holding the roof on or fondling the gear stick, and they stop looking any further ahead than the car in front.
All Jagged Up said:
As I replied to BertBert in the IAM thread - it occurred to me that I would be taking that thread off topic.
BertBert suggested that so few drivers observe the speed limit that those who do are considered to be driving too slowly by others.
Why? Is this a question of attitude? Or a belief that speed limits are only for learner drivers and "blue rinse IAM brigade".
Does this perception of "too slow" apply to 20/30 mph roads? Or 40-60mph roads?
What about the actual road traffic conditions?
We will leave motorways out of the discussion as I think these should be upped to 80mph to bring into line with rest of Europe anyway.
If you're driving slower than me then you're driving too slowly and if you're driving faster than me then you're driving too fast. BertBert suggested that so few drivers observe the speed limit that those who do are considered to be driving too slowly by others.
Why? Is this a question of attitude? Or a belief that speed limits are only for learner drivers and "blue rinse IAM brigade".
Does this perception of "too slow" apply to 20/30 mph roads? Or 40-60mph roads?
What about the actual road traffic conditions?
We will leave motorways out of the discussion as I think these should be upped to 80mph to bring into line with rest of Europe anyway.
Good post.........
I have to add that I am disturbed by the number who do use the phrase `driving with good progress` on this, and other forums. To me this indicates a disregard for the speed limit after consideration (or not) of the prevailing conditions.
Its just my take on the statement, but wouldn`t use it to describe driving at the speed limit as most modern cars are well capable of doing so without drama.
Also all this talk about stability etc, well TBO....fine in the 1960`s when cars were downright dangerous....but they arn`t now, so to me it just comes over as a justification for antisocial driving.
I have to add that I am disturbed by the number who do use the phrase `driving with good progress` on this, and other forums. To me this indicates a disregard for the speed limit after consideration (or not) of the prevailing conditions.
Its just my take on the statement, but wouldn`t use it to describe driving at the speed limit as most modern cars are well capable of doing so without drama.
Also all this talk about stability etc, well TBO....fine in the 1960`s when cars were downright dangerous....but they arn`t now, so to me it just comes over as a justification for antisocial driving.
HRG said:
If you're driving slower than me then you're driving too slowly and if you're driving faster than me then you're driving too fast.
Agree with the latter part as I`m sure you drive at or near the prevailing limit at all times (nothing wrong with that).
But as you are not the speed police or a Gvt body the first is really only your opinion, based entirely on your own ability, age, motor functions, eyesight etc........
Munter said:
It's an attitude problem. And yes it applies on all roads.
Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
There's no law against wanting to drive slowly. I'm pottling now redundancy looms, in order to save every penny. 55 mph up the M58 instead of erm more. Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
Edited by Munter on Monday 18th May 09:09
HRG said:
Nope, I drive a Griff 500 and I was taught on my advanced motorcyclists course (by serving motorcycle traffic cops) that NSL means No Sodding Limit.
That was long before PC crept into training
Oh dear....case rested.That was long before PC crept into training
(Mind you, with a Griff you just think you are going fast round corners
)Mr POD said:
Munter said:
It's an attitude problem. And yes it applies on all roads.
Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
There's no law against wanting to drive slowly. I'm pottling now redundancy looms, in order to save every penny. 55 mph up the M58 instead of erm more. Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
Edited by Munter on Monday 18th May 09:09
I agree, however, people who drive below the speed limit for no reason are a nusciene (sp?). Also at 55, aren't you causing some trucks to pull out and pass you. Which causes more congestion.
Flanders. said:
I agree, however, people who drive below the speed limit for no reason are a nusciene (sp?). Also at 55, aren't you causing some trucks to pull out and pass you. Which causes more congestion.
People who drive below the speed limit always have a reason, if you can`t see that then perhaps you arn`t as advanced as you think you are.......Sould we round up all the drivers that fall below your standards and put them in a concentration camp or something? It seems to me that Advanced Driving can make some less tolerant toward their fellow road user and not more, as should be the case.
commonsense party says:
Speed limits: limits set on a road to advise motorists of the safest speed to make good progress on average across the distqance of any given road.
Drivers attitude: you are free to break the limit if you wish, you are also free to stick below the limits. As long as you are safe and in control. Its an individual choice and must be respected. if you break the limit and are involved in an accident, you pay the price as you have chosen to break the advise given to you by the law!
Current scenario: if the govt advised limit is not adhered to..then you ARE a criminal and public target. This attitude has filtered down to the population in general and therefore any motorist even 'sounding' fast is automatically judged to be anti social and a probable life taker on the road!
Speed limits: limits set on a road to advise motorists of the safest speed to make good progress on average across the distqance of any given road.
Drivers attitude: you are free to break the limit if you wish, you are also free to stick below the limits. As long as you are safe and in control. Its an individual choice and must be respected. if you break the limit and are involved in an accident, you pay the price as you have chosen to break the advise given to you by the law!
Current scenario: if the govt advised limit is not adhered to..then you ARE a criminal and public target. This attitude has filtered down to the population in general and therefore any motorist even 'sounding' fast is automatically judged to be anti social and a probable life taker on the road!
Martin A said:
Hi All
Has anyone considered that drivers follow so closely because they don't want to be slowed down by those that break the law and force them back in the queue by overtaking? The actions are not aimed at depriving the overtaker, just at preserving their own status quo.
Few drivers seem to think or care about the social effect of their illegal actions, particularly those that show that law breaking has perceived or actual benefits. Just like littering or rowdy behaviour it seems innocuous and from the individual's point of view an expression of freedom but has a societal effect as explained in the first paragraph.
This is just the sort of attitude that I cant understand? Just because you do not wish to overtake, you'll stop other doing so by not leaving a gap. Has anyone considered that drivers follow so closely because they don't want to be slowed down by those that break the law and force them back in the queue by overtaking? The actions are not aimed at depriving the overtaker, just at preserving their own status quo.
Few drivers seem to think or care about the social effect of their illegal actions, particularly those that show that law breaking has perceived or actual benefits. Just like littering or rowdy behaviour it seems innocuous and from the individual's point of view an expression of freedom but has a societal effect as explained in the first paragraph.
Overtaking has become a lost and forgotten art. People seem to think that overtaking is socially irresponsible, anti social or illegal. I have lost count of the times I sit behind a queue of traffic doing 38-40mph in a 60 limit only to find everyone bunched up and unwilling to overtake when a safe opportunity arises.
If you are unwilling to/dont want to overtake, what's the point in not leaving a gap for folks like me who, dont want to sit at 40 (how DO people drive this slowly on clear and empty roads??) but dont really wish to endanger myself and others by going for the 4 car pass?
I often find that even if there is plenty of room to overtake with clear vis and no oncoming the occupants of the slower vehicle flash and gesticulate in disgust at another car daring to go past. WTF?
If the limit is 60, what are the percieved advantages of p***ing everyone else off by driving at 40?
And before the barage, no, I dont tailgate/flash lights or pass aggressively.
t. Simple as.crisisjez said:
People who drive below the speed limit always have a reason, if you can`t see that then perhaps you arn`t as advanced as you think you are.......
It could be argued that people always have a reason for everything, that doesn't mean that people inconvenienced by that will agree their reasons are sufficient.Dr Jekyll said:
Martin A said:
Has anyone considered that drivers follow so closely because they don't want to be slowed down by those that break the law and force them back in the queue by overtaking? The actions are not aimed at depriving the overtaker, just at preserving their own status quo.
I frequently make a 30 mile daytime journey on an A road. There is one long straight where drivers pass near the beginning of that journey. They then stay in a queue for 45 minutes, stressed and looking for overtakes that are never going to happen and arrive at the other end maybe 10 seconds before I do,
This sounds a bit like the 'overtaking is queue jumping' philosophy.I frequently make a 30 mile daytime journey on an A road. There is one long straight where drivers pass near the beginning of that journey. They then stay in a queue for 45 minutes, stressed and looking for overtakes that are never going to happen and arrive at the other end maybe 10 seconds before I do,
thequietone said:
This is just the sort of attitude that I cant understand? Just because you do not wish to overtake, you'll stop other doing so by not leaving a gap.
Overtaking has become a lost and forgotten art. People seem to think that overtaking is socially irresponsible, anti social or illegal. I have lost count of the times I sit behind a queue of traffic doing 38-40mph in a 60 limit only to find everyone bunched up and unwilling to overtake when a safe opportunity arises.
If you are unwilling to/dont want to overtake, what's the point in not leaving a gap for folks like me who, dont want to sit at 40 (how DO people drive this slowly on clear and empty roads??) but dont really wish to endanger myself and others by going for the 4 car pass?
I often find that even if there is plenty of room to overtake with clear vis and no oncoming the occupants of the slower vehicle flash and gesticulate in disgust at another car daring to go past. WTF?
If the limit is 60, what are the percieved advantages of p***ing everyone else off by driving at 40?
And before the barage, no, I dont tailgate/flash lights or pass aggressively.
I don't think overtaking is queue jumping per se. I was suggesting that some people might find that having their journey time extended by someone overtaking outside of the confines of the Highway Code to be unfair and so they might take steps to prevent it.Overtaking has become a lost and forgotten art. People seem to think that overtaking is socially irresponsible, anti social or illegal. I have lost count of the times I sit behind a queue of traffic doing 38-40mph in a 60 limit only to find everyone bunched up and unwilling to overtake when a safe opportunity arises.
If you are unwilling to/dont want to overtake, what's the point in not leaving a gap for folks like me who, dont want to sit at 40 (how DO people drive this slowly on clear and empty roads??) but dont really wish to endanger myself and others by going for the 4 car pass?
I often find that even if there is plenty of room to overtake with clear vis and no oncoming the occupants of the slower vehicle flash and gesticulate in disgust at another car daring to go past. WTF?
If the limit is 60, what are the percieved advantages of p***ing everyone else off by driving at 40?
And before the barage, no, I dont tailgate/flash lights or pass aggressively.
If I have someone behind who is quicker I'll always leave a four second gap. I'll also overtake those that I can safely and legally, many vehicles at a time when appropriate. Generally what seems to happen is that others are unwilling to step outside of the Highway Code to overtake but not with following distance whereas it seems that the opposite is often true for "advanced" drivers.
Dr Jekyll said:
How do you know they are 'stressed'? How do you know they will not fnid further overtaking opportunities? They are not all making exactly the same journey as you.
If you come up behind another vehicle then you are clearly going faster than them, so in general you should take the first safe overtaking opportunity. Looking for overtakes is not stressful, it's actually a good discipline because it encourages you to look a long way ahead. As a passenger I can always tell when the driver has given up looking for overtakes, they slump in the seat, a hand comes off the wheel and starts holding the roof on or fondling the gear stick, and they stop looking any further ahead than the car in front.
It's probably as easy to tell when a following driver is stressed as it is to know when they have given up looking to overtake. I often feign disinterest in order to make overtakes easier. Also on the journey in question, as already mentioned, the gain of overtaking is so small that it matters little to the overtaker's journey time while we are both on the same road.If you come up behind another vehicle then you are clearly going faster than them, so in general you should take the first safe overtaking opportunity. Looking for overtakes is not stressful, it's actually a good discipline because it encourages you to look a long way ahead. As a passenger I can always tell when the driver has given up looking for overtakes, they slump in the seat, a hand comes off the wheel and starts holding the roof on or fondling the gear stick, and they stop looking any further ahead than the car in front.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Martin A
Flanders. said:
Mr POD said:
Munter said:
It's an attitude problem. And yes it applies on all roads.
Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
There's no law against wanting to drive slowly. I'm pottling now redundancy looms, in order to save every penny. 55 mph up the M58 instead of erm more. Correct attitude = "I expect other drivers to drive at the speed limit where safe. I'm a lucky guy if I want to go faster and so do they. If doing the limit means I'm late. I was late leaving"
Normal attitude = "I want to go faster than the limit. You are in MY way. I hate you for that. I have to go faster than the limit for meto be on time."
Edited by Munter on Monday 18th May 09:09
I agree, however, people who drive below the speed limit for no reason are a nusciene (sp?). Also at 55, aren't you causing some trucks to pull out and pass you. Which causes more congestion.
I've been driving on dual carriagways and motorways (A3, M25, M40) regularly for the past four years and, basically, have been above the speed limit wherever safe to do so.
Since I was starting my IAM this weekend just passed, I decided to try and obey the speed limit for a few days.
I've been really surprised at how many people obey the speed limit - on the 50 mph section of the A3, it's probably 80% of those on the road? Still, if you stick to an actual 50 mph (indicated 52), you still get to overtake loads of people.
My main thoughts about driving at legal speeds on dual carriageways - it's really boring and more dangerous. It feels far safer being able to blast past anyone with a distinctly dodgy driving style.
Since I was starting my IAM this weekend just passed, I decided to try and obey the speed limit for a few days.
I've been really surprised at how many people obey the speed limit - on the 50 mph section of the A3, it's probably 80% of those on the road? Still, if you stick to an actual 50 mph (indicated 52), you still get to overtake loads of people.
My main thoughts about driving at legal speeds on dual carriageways - it's really boring and more dangerous. It feels far safer being able to blast past anyone with a distinctly dodgy driving style.
Edited by Wilburo on Monday 18th May 16:45
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff