Foreign Drivers
Discussion
Something happened to me last week and I thought I'd share it. Partly to make a point but mostly to demonstrate that whatever you do accidents happen.
I was on my way to work on the A47 just passed Peterborough at six in the morning. Good visability, twilight so I had my head lights on keeping a safe braking distance from the Iveco Daily van in front of me and a Silver Mk4 Fiesta a bit too close behind me and constantly looking to overtake. Heading West just passed the end of the duel carrigeway between bends the Fiesta would get closer and have another look past me but the traffic kept coming the other way. Because I was behind a slower moving vehicle I was keeping a steady 50-52mph. We reached a village Wansford and I could see a Petrol station ahead. I moved my car as far right as I could to allow a silver Renault Laguna at the exit a clear view behind me as there was a gap big enough for him/her to get out once the Fiesta had passed.
As soon as the Van passed the Exit to the Petrol station I was level with the entrance and the Laguna pulled out on to the road and stopped because there was a green LDV coming the other way. I applied the brake and checked my mirrors before attempting to turn into the painted traffic island but the tailgating Fiesta was now up to and only inches off my offside rear quarter. If I had pulled out she would have hit me or the LDV head on trying to avoid me (she was close enough for me to notice she was a blonde). I turned in away from the Fiesta and pushed my brake pedal as hard as I could and locked the wheels. I had managed to scrub off most of my speed before I enevitably hit the Laguna. Still did enough damage to my Fiat Panda to be a write it off after a three second inspection.
The Police arrived and I told them that the driver of the Laguna was from Poland and had only been in the counrty three days. He had simply forgotten to look right because when he's at home doesn't have to. He admitted fault immediately and the Fiesta driver didn't even stop; as she was blocking my escape route and therefore partly to blame her details were given to the Police officers who didn't bother making a note of it. If this Polish gentleman were English he would have been cautioned for "Driving Without Due Care and Attention" on the spot and breathalised in cuffs, but because it would have involed doing Police work Cambrideshires finest didn't bother. Just took our insurance details, gave me an incident number, left me to push my car out of the way and order a Taxi home.
I did everything I could to avoid this accident but in the end I went for the rock instead of the hard place. I dread to think what would have happened if the Fiesta had hit the LDV head on. All four vehicles would have been involved and the road would have been blocked for as long as it took to scrape remains of the tailgater off the road.
I have since spoken to a Police officer from Norfolk while she condones the attitude of the officers that morning, she told me that by the time a Polish translater had been found and a case good enough for the CPS to proceed (CCTV from the Petrol Station would have been a start) had been made the Polish driver would be back home and that would have been the end of it.
It was just one of those things that happen. Like when Holiday makers get ran over because they're used to traffic coming the other way. I still don't know if he's insured to drive in this country. If I had taken the escape route in the traffic island and the Fiesta had stayed in lane the accident probably wouldn't have happened. Still a stiff neck for a couple of days and a dead Panda is a small price to pay for not killing someone.
The first thing my misses said when I told her?
"Well; if you were on your bike you'd be dead".
Nope. I would have had much better brakes.
I was on my way to work on the A47 just passed Peterborough at six in the morning. Good visability, twilight so I had my head lights on keeping a safe braking distance from the Iveco Daily van in front of me and a Silver Mk4 Fiesta a bit too close behind me and constantly looking to overtake. Heading West just passed the end of the duel carrigeway between bends the Fiesta would get closer and have another look past me but the traffic kept coming the other way. Because I was behind a slower moving vehicle I was keeping a steady 50-52mph. We reached a village Wansford and I could see a Petrol station ahead. I moved my car as far right as I could to allow a silver Renault Laguna at the exit a clear view behind me as there was a gap big enough for him/her to get out once the Fiesta had passed.
As soon as the Van passed the Exit to the Petrol station I was level with the entrance and the Laguna pulled out on to the road and stopped because there was a green LDV coming the other way. I applied the brake and checked my mirrors before attempting to turn into the painted traffic island but the tailgating Fiesta was now up to and only inches off my offside rear quarter. If I had pulled out she would have hit me or the LDV head on trying to avoid me (she was close enough for me to notice she was a blonde). I turned in away from the Fiesta and pushed my brake pedal as hard as I could and locked the wheels. I had managed to scrub off most of my speed before I enevitably hit the Laguna. Still did enough damage to my Fiat Panda to be a write it off after a three second inspection.
The Police arrived and I told them that the driver of the Laguna was from Poland and had only been in the counrty three days. He had simply forgotten to look right because when he's at home doesn't have to. He admitted fault immediately and the Fiesta driver didn't even stop; as she was blocking my escape route and therefore partly to blame her details were given to the Police officers who didn't bother making a note of it. If this Polish gentleman were English he would have been cautioned for "Driving Without Due Care and Attention" on the spot and breathalised in cuffs, but because it would have involed doing Police work Cambrideshires finest didn't bother. Just took our insurance details, gave me an incident number, left me to push my car out of the way and order a Taxi home.
I did everything I could to avoid this accident but in the end I went for the rock instead of the hard place. I dread to think what would have happened if the Fiesta had hit the LDV head on. All four vehicles would have been involved and the road would have been blocked for as long as it took to scrape remains of the tailgater off the road.
I have since spoken to a Police officer from Norfolk while she condones the attitude of the officers that morning, she told me that by the time a Polish translater had been found and a case good enough for the CPS to proceed (CCTV from the Petrol Station would have been a start) had been made the Polish driver would be back home and that would have been the end of it.
It was just one of those things that happen. Like when Holiday makers get ran over because they're used to traffic coming the other way. I still don't know if he's insured to drive in this country. If I had taken the escape route in the traffic island and the Fiesta had stayed in lane the accident probably wouldn't have happened. Still a stiff neck for a couple of days and a dead Panda is a small price to pay for not killing someone.
The first thing my misses said when I told her?
"Well; if you were on your bike you'd be dead".
Nope. I would have had much better brakes.
Thanks Zeeky, the question mark over the other drivers insurance is there because he is here on a holiday visa and was obviously commuting to/from a place of work with a car full of pasengers. I stand by the CD10 allegation. If one of us did the same in France the Gendarmerie would be all over us like a rash.
A little insight. The first thing I thought when I got out of my car.......
"Bugger! I should have pumped the brakes"
The first thing my misses said......
"If you were on your bike you'd be dead".
Still don't know about the other drivers insurance as yet. for the sake of a £25 pay out (the rest is coverd by my excess) I'm not that bothered if he was insured. I just want to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone again. So IN10 as well as CD10 should get him out from behind the wheel for a while.
"Bugger! I should have pumped the brakes"
The first thing my misses said......
"If you were on your bike you'd be dead".
Still don't know about the other drivers insurance as yet. for the sake of a £25 pay out (the rest is coverd by my excess) I'm not that bothered if he was insured. I just want to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone again. So IN10 as well as CD10 should get him out from behind the wheel for a while.
Suprise-suprise! He isn't insured and when the Police eventually went round to the address he gave to caution him for IN10 and hopefully CD10 he had already driven back to Polland.
If the Cambridgeshire Constabluary had done their job properly in the fist place I would not now be looking to the MIB to payout, in anything up to eighteen months time.
If the Cambridgeshire Constabluary had done their job properly in the fist place I would not now be looking to the MIB to payout, in anything up to eighteen months time.
Robert060379 said:
Suprise-suprise! He isn't insured and when the Police eventually went round to the address he gave to caution him for IN10 and hopefully CD10 he had already driven back to Polland.
If the Cambridgeshire Constabluary had done their job properly in the fist place I would not now be looking to the MIB to payout, in anything up to eighteen months time.
Sorry to hear that, but it's not suprising. There have been lots of threads on PH where, when anyone dares bring up the subject of untaxed / uninsured vehicles (UK or foreign) they generally get abuse from their fellow PHers. Here's a good example:If the Cambridgeshire Constabluary had done their job properly in the fist place I would not now be looking to the MIB to payout, in anything up to eighteen months time.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Perhaps they might think again if they were left seriously out of pocket.
this is one of the biggest problem we have in the uk at the moment and i dont think the polaticions or the police forces are treating it serious enough .i dont think it is fair on the uk motorists to be at the receiving end.in all honesty anyone coming from asia africa and most of eastern europe should not be allowed to drive on the uk roads as the driving conditions we have here are totally different to theirs most of the cars from eastern europe are driven with no insurance and dummy plates and the police forces over here havent a clue in how to deal with it.
zubair said:
this is one of the biggest problem we have in the uk at the moment and i dont think the polaticions or the police forces are treating it serious enough .i dont think it is fair on the uk motorists to be at the receiving end.in all honesty anyone coming from asia africa and most of eastern europe should not be allowed to drive on the uk roads as the driving conditions we have here are totally different to theirs most of the cars from eastern europe are driven with no insurance and dummy plates and the police forces over here havent a clue in how to deal with it.
Unfortunately politicians & treating UK motorists fairly are two terms that don't go too well together these days. 7mike said:
zubair said:
this is one of the biggest problem we have in the uk at the moment and i dont think the polaticions or the police forces are treating it serious enough .i dont think it is fair on the uk motorists to be at the receiving end.in all honesty anyone coming from asia africa and most of eastern europe should not be allowed to drive on the uk roads as the driving conditions we have here are totally different to theirs most of the cars from eastern europe are driven with no insurance and dummy plates and the police forces over here havent a clue in how to deal with it.
Unfortunately politicians & treating UK motorists fairly are two terms that don't go too well together these days. We seize a lot of foreign drivers uk cars for no insurance. We issue each shift about 5-8 foreign drivers on the spot fines. Sieze 2-3 foreign drivers cars for no insurance.
In this case the OP would have to claim of the MIB whether or not the foreign driver was dealt with for no insurance.
It would be fair if all countries' driving licences were issued for achieving an equivalent standard. However some require a high standard, some a mediocre one and some just require you to be able to get round the block without hitting anything. There ought to be an international accreditation body for different countries' driving test standards and only people who have passed the test in an accredited country get to use their licence internationally.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Actually - we can drive in their countries without taking tests so it is fair or without insurance in the same way.
Cannot work out what you mean?Well - when I book a driving holiday - I have to have my driving licence/insurance documents in the car per the blurb in the "tourist/AA map books". I also have to have insurance cover - and all fully comp policies insure for 120 days or so per the staff at Swinton Insurance.
Thus you have to be qualified and insured to drive abroad as well as here.
The same rules would apply to the foreigners driving in the UK surely??
If I were to live in France - I'd either have to insure my UK car for permanent use over there as any car I bought and registered over there.
mr_annie_vxr said:
UK forces can (well some) issue on the spot fines up to £900. If the driver does not pay their car is padlocked at the road side and they cannot get it back until they pay.
I thought you took it to the pound whereby the driver has to pay a further £100 to get it released? mr_annie_vxr said:
We seize a lot of foreign drivers uk cars for no insurance. We issue each shift about 5-8 foreign drivers on the spot fines. Sieze 2-3 foreign drivers cars for no insurance.
Ah..so the foreign drivers are resident here. Bought the car here. Failed to insure it. When I see ANPR around this area (regular spots) - I usually see a tow truck as well.What if the foreign driver does not have £900 on his or her person or in the bank account? What about the points or record at DVLA for driving without insurance? I understood, from a motoring section in the papers, all of this was forwarded to DVLA so that these points could be accrued for placing on any UK licence should they apply for one?
What other sanctions are open to you?
What if the car is registered in their own country? I see lots of Polish registered cars these days. How do you check if these cars are insured? Or the driver legally qualified to drive here?
You have also made another point which I would like you to clarify. You say the car remains at the road side until they pay the on-spot fine.
So what about the INSURANCE policy. Surely this car is impounded at a more secure place until they pay the fine and PRODUCE proof of cover BEFORE you let them drive the car again? After all - they can break padlocks and "hotwire" the car later?
I think these are valid questions to ask.
mr_annie_vxr said:
In this case the OP would have to claim of the MIB whether or not the foreign driver was dealt with for no insurance.
Yes .. But.. not quite correct. He would fill in the accident report form for his own insurers. They would go ahead with the repairs and the insurance company would then recoup from the MIB. Either way the OP loses out on NCB or loses a life on on the protected version of NCB. Pigeon said:
It would be fair if all countries' driving licences were issued for achieving an equivalent standard. However some require a high standard, some a mediocre one and some just require you to be able to get round the block without hitting anything. There ought to be an international accreditation body for different countries' driving test standards and only people who have passed the test in an accredited country get to use their licence internationally.
I am sure I read that the EU are planning to do something like this. Been on the cards since 2002.Also to mr annie - once I re-read the OP again. He was hit by a foreign registered car and not a foreign driver in a car bought and registed in the UK.
How can you check if these foreign registered cars are insured or not? Do you have a database or do you stop these vehicles as a routine roadside check?
I think this is a growing problem and hope the EU speeds up the directives on this.
How can you check if these foreign registered cars are insured or not? Do you have a database or do you stop these vehicles as a routine roadside check?
I think this is a growing problem and hope the EU speeds up the directives on this.
All Jagged Up said:
Pigeon said:
It would be fair if all countries' driving licences were issued for achieving an equivalent standard. However some require a high standard, some a mediocre one and some just require you to be able to get round the block without hitting anything. There ought to be an international accreditation body for different countries' driving test standards and only people who have passed the test in an accredited country get to use their licence internationally.
I am sure I read that the EU are planning to do something like this. Been on the cards since 2002.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff