Passing slip-roads
Discussion
This is more a collection of random thoughts, rather than a specific question - but I'd love to hear what you guys think.
It concerns passing slip roads on motorways and dual carriageways. Assuming the main road is empty, is it prudent to move out into lane 2 when passing the slip-road? I've always done this, and asked my IAM instructor about it. He told me that I shouldn't really, as I should be watching the slip-road and anticipating traffic joining the main carriageway. Fair enough, and no matter what I do when passing slip-roads, I'm scanning for and anticipating joining traffic. A lot of slip-roads are well sighted, so moving into lane 2 isn't always necessary.
On my daily drive, there's a slip-road that joins a 50mph stretch of dual-carriageway. The sliproad is on a bend and not too well sighted. Even when the roads empty and I'm pressing on a bit, I'll move out to lane 2, just in case. This prevents any last minute need to pull into lane 2 if necessary.
Being honest, it's somewhat satisfying to drive in a smooth line, via lane 2, past this sliproad then back into lane 1. Is there a reason that I shouldn't be doing this? Granted it's not always needed in the majority of sliproads, but in this case I feel it's much smoother and safer.
Also, on 3 lane motorways where a sliproad is merging with traffic in lane 1. If I'm in lane 2, I'll always move over to lane 3 where possible, anticipating that traffic in lane 1 will likely move into lane 2 to help the mergers. It also feels good to just smoothly pass the "rabble" and jockeying for position that goes on when a sliproad merges, without dropping speed.
What do you guys think?
It concerns passing slip roads on motorways and dual carriageways. Assuming the main road is empty, is it prudent to move out into lane 2 when passing the slip-road? I've always done this, and asked my IAM instructor about it. He told me that I shouldn't really, as I should be watching the slip-road and anticipating traffic joining the main carriageway. Fair enough, and no matter what I do when passing slip-roads, I'm scanning for and anticipating joining traffic. A lot of slip-roads are well sighted, so moving into lane 2 isn't always necessary.
On my daily drive, there's a slip-road that joins a 50mph stretch of dual-carriageway. The sliproad is on a bend and not too well sighted. Even when the roads empty and I'm pressing on a bit, I'll move out to lane 2, just in case. This prevents any last minute need to pull into lane 2 if necessary.
Being honest, it's somewhat satisfying to drive in a smooth line, via lane 2, past this sliproad then back into lane 1. Is there a reason that I shouldn't be doing this? Granted it's not always needed in the majority of sliproads, but in this case I feel it's much smoother and safer.
Also, on 3 lane motorways where a sliproad is merging with traffic in lane 1. If I'm in lane 2, I'll always move over to lane 3 where possible, anticipating that traffic in lane 1 will likely move into lane 2 to help the mergers. It also feels good to just smoothly pass the "rabble" and jockeying for position that goes on when a sliproad merges, without dropping speed.
What do you guys think?
I tend to take a good look up the slip road before deciding whether to move out into L2. If I have a poor sightline on it I may well move out as a precaution. This is especially the case where I know the slip is short and curving (A34 down to Southampton for example). This is because I know how hard it can be to safely join on these slips, and I never want to have someone stopped on a slip waiting to join - as discussed on another thread, those on the slip should anticipate and adjust speed accordingly but the vast majority don't/won't. These actions also have the proviso that it won't hinder or hold up traffic - which has a higher priority.
Had a situation last night (funnily enough...) where an abominably poor join then became my fault as their bad planning meant that they'd tailgated a lorry up 100+ metres of straight slip with 200m plus of empty lane 1 behind them (as I'd just moved out to let them safely on!) which I know he could observe! The two cars in front overtook the car+hgv combo, and then so do I. All the while the car is trying to muscle out from behind the truck, instead of waiting for a safe gap to overtake (plenty of space behind me - none in front). So I get the full lights
horn/shakeyhead treatment from this car.....
Still, that is a rare occurence for me.
I think this is one of those situations where pragmatism is just as important as 'the rules'
Had a situation last night (funnily enough...) where an abominably poor join then became my fault as their bad planning meant that they'd tailgated a lorry up 100+ metres of straight slip with 200m plus of empty lane 1 behind them (as I'd just moved out to let them safely on!) which I know he could observe! The two cars in front overtook the car+hgv combo, and then so do I. All the while the car is trying to muscle out from behind the truck, instead of waiting for a safe gap to overtake (plenty of space behind me - none in front). So I get the full lights
horn/shakeyhead treatment from this car.....
Still, that is a rare occurence for me.
I think this is one of those situations where pragmatism is just as important as 'the rules'
Edited by coanda on Wednesday 8th April 08:57
Well as it sums up my own driving style, i would think you were spot on.
The only other aspect is I will have a left glance "up" the slip road too, for Blue & Yellows or even a lane 3 pilot joining the M-way. ( Idenified as a car doing 80-90 on the slip road, and you just "know", they will bw cutting across to lane 3 ASAP).
The only other aspect is I will have a left glance "up" the slip road too, for Blue & Yellows or even a lane 3 pilot joining the M-way. ( Idenified as a car doing 80-90 on the slip road, and you just "know", they will bw cutting across to lane 3 ASAP).
erdnase said:
It also feels good to just smoothly pass the "rabble" and jockeying for position that goes on when a sliproad merges, without dropping speed.
I'd be aware of your speed differential if passing a jockeying rabble -- they are less likely to be aware of you than of each other. Other than that you have a choice between inconveniencing other vehicles behind and those on the slip road. If you can see one to be clear, then why not position nearest that emptiness?
Due to where I live I don't tend to drive on motorways a great deal but when I do I tend to get an early look up the slip and assess whether there is any likeleyhood of a conflict with oncoming vehicles, this consists of a number of things like what type of car it is (usually get an idea by the type how it might be driven) then look at what speed they are travelling, you have 3 options when traffic is merging, ease off and let them join using acceleration sense, squeeze on the gas and let them join behind or the 3rd option would be to move to lane 2, the 3rd option would be my least favourite as the car joining would be doing so alongside and you are at their mercy if something goes wrong (3rd line of vehicles abreast sort of thing),
Gary
Gary
I have done a lot of driving on dual carriageways for more years than I care to mention, and would like to point out two recent trends in driving habits.
1) A lot of drivers habitually move from lane one when approaching a slip road, as is the subject of this topic.
2) Many drivers joining from the slip road do not adjust their speed to merge into a gap. In fact some of them seem to think they have priority!
I have a theory that these two observations are linked, i.e. those joining from the sliproad have become accustomed to other drivers moving out of their way, and have lost the ability to look for a gap in lane one and adjust their speed. Especially new drivers, as L drivers are rarely seen to practise on dual carriageways and are obviously prohibited from motorways. One day of course, the traffic in lane two will prevent those from lane one moving out of their way and then a collision is likely.
Personally, I always move over if safe if it will help a commercial vehicle join the sliproad - these may have difficulty accelerating up to the speed of the traffic flow. Otherwise I follow the Highway Code rule of the road - DRIVE ON THE LEFT - whilst keeping all my options open to avoid the incompetent and the ignorant in the sliproad but only when necessary.
1) A lot of drivers habitually move from lane one when approaching a slip road, as is the subject of this topic.
2) Many drivers joining from the slip road do not adjust their speed to merge into a gap. In fact some of them seem to think they have priority!
I have a theory that these two observations are linked, i.e. those joining from the sliproad have become accustomed to other drivers moving out of their way, and have lost the ability to look for a gap in lane one and adjust their speed. Especially new drivers, as L drivers are rarely seen to practise on dual carriageways and are obviously prohibited from motorways. One day of course, the traffic in lane two will prevent those from lane one moving out of their way and then a collision is likely.
Personally, I always move over if safe if it will help a commercial vehicle join the sliproad - these may have difficulty accelerating up to the speed of the traffic flow. Otherwise I follow the Highway Code rule of the road - DRIVE ON THE LEFT - whilst keeping all my options open to avoid the incompetent and the ignorant in the sliproad but only when necessary.
erdnase said:
This is more a collection of random thoughts, rather than a specific question - but I'd love to hear what you guys think.
It concerns passing slip roads on motorways and dual carriageways. Assuming the main road is empty, is it prudent to move out into lane 2 when passing the slip-road? I've always done this, and asked my IAM instructor about it. He told me that I shouldn't really, as I should be watching the slip-road and anticipating traffic joining the main carriageway. Fair enough, and no matter what I do when passing slip-roads, I'm scanning for and anticipating joining traffic. A lot of slip-roads are well sighted, so moving into lane 2 isn't always necessary.
On my daily drive, there's a slip-road that joins a 50mph stretch of dual-carriageway. The sliproad is on a bend and not too well sighted. Even when the roads empty and I'm pressing on a bit, I'll move out to lane 2, just in case. This prevents any last minute need to pull into lane 2 if necessary.
Being honest, it's somewhat satisfying to drive in a smooth line, via lane 2, past this sliproad then back into lane 1. Is there a reason that I shouldn't be doing this? Granted it's not always needed in the majority of sliproads, but in this case I feel it's much smoother and safer.
Also, on 3 lane motorways where a sliproad is merging with traffic in lane 1. If I'm in lane 2, I'll always move over to lane 3 where possible, anticipating that traffic in lane 1 will likely move into lane 2 to help the mergers. It also feels good to just smoothly pass the "rabble" and jockeying for position that goes on when a sliproad merges, without dropping speed.
What do you guys think?
Your thinking is spot on.It concerns passing slip roads on motorways and dual carriageways. Assuming the main road is empty, is it prudent to move out into lane 2 when passing the slip-road? I've always done this, and asked my IAM instructor about it. He told me that I shouldn't really, as I should be watching the slip-road and anticipating traffic joining the main carriageway. Fair enough, and no matter what I do when passing slip-roads, I'm scanning for and anticipating joining traffic. A lot of slip-roads are well sighted, so moving into lane 2 isn't always necessary.
On my daily drive, there's a slip-road that joins a 50mph stretch of dual-carriageway. The sliproad is on a bend and not too well sighted. Even when the roads empty and I'm pressing on a bit, I'll move out to lane 2, just in case. This prevents any last minute need to pull into lane 2 if necessary.
Being honest, it's somewhat satisfying to drive in a smooth line, via lane 2, past this sliproad then back into lane 1. Is there a reason that I shouldn't be doing this? Granted it's not always needed in the majority of sliproads, but in this case I feel it's much smoother and safer.
Also, on 3 lane motorways where a sliproad is merging with traffic in lane 1. If I'm in lane 2, I'll always move over to lane 3 where possible, anticipating that traffic in lane 1 will likely move into lane 2 to help the mergers. It also feels good to just smoothly pass the "rabble" and jockeying for position that goes on when a sliproad merges, without dropping speed.
What do you guys think?
Went through this very scenario on the Edinburgh bypass the other day. Approaching busy slip-road in 50 zone and I moved into a clear-ish L2 as I do normally in that situation. When we pulled over later to discuss things the instructor asked for my reasoning and said that I should still have maintained L1 but to merge with the joining traffic.
I had a bit of an issue with this with someone sat in lane 1 as I attempted to join the slip road. I was doing somewhere between 60-70 (was watching the road, not the speedo, a whole argument in itself that one) and as I prepared to turn on I saw a car to my right, just behind, in L1, doing a steady 60 I imagine. It would have taken a serious stab of the brakes to get in behind before the end of the slip road (quite a short sliproad onto dual carriageway) so I stayed at the speed I was doing, and cut in front, of course getting horns and abuse from the driver behind.
So who was wrong? Was I wrong to cut in front, should I have gone in behind? Bear in mind this slip road you really cannot see until you are about 100m from where the lane markings meet at a point. Or was the other drive wrong to have stayed in L1 when it was perfectly clear I was going to emerge right next to them? If I was in their position I would have moved over - L2 was empty so no issue there.
Annoyingly further up the lane markings force the outside lane of the DC to move over to the left, and the inside lane further over. I follow the lane markings... and end up cutting up the same guy because he ignores the lane markings, goes straight on and gives me the horn again.
I would always move out unless its easy to make a gap for them or its obvious no-one is there.
As for joining on, goodness I have loss count of how many people I have to follow onto that carriageway at 40mph - it's more dangerous going slowly than matching the speed of the traffic. And frustrating when said person immediately joins L2 and accelerates to 70mph once on the carriageway!
So who was wrong? Was I wrong to cut in front, should I have gone in behind? Bear in mind this slip road you really cannot see until you are about 100m from where the lane markings meet at a point. Or was the other drive wrong to have stayed in L1 when it was perfectly clear I was going to emerge right next to them? If I was in their position I would have moved over - L2 was empty so no issue there.
Annoyingly further up the lane markings force the outside lane of the DC to move over to the left, and the inside lane further over. I follow the lane markings... and end up cutting up the same guy because he ignores the lane markings, goes straight on and gives me the horn again.
I would always move out unless its easy to make a gap for them or its obvious no-one is there.
As for joining on, goodness I have loss count of how many people I have to follow onto that carriageway at 40mph - it's more dangerous going slowly than matching the speed of the traffic. And frustrating when said person immediately joins L2 and accelerates to 70mph once on the carriageway!
RenesisEvo said:
I had a bit of an issue with this with someone sat in lane 1 as I attempted to join the slip road. I was doing somewhere between 60-70 (was watching the road, not the speedo, a whole argument in itself that one) and as I prepared to turn on I saw a car to my right, just behind, in L1, doing a steady 60 I imagine. It would have taken a serious stab of the brakes to get in behind before the end of the slip road (quite a short sliproad onto dual carriageway) so I stayed at the speed I was doing, and cut in front, of course getting horns and abuse from the driver behind.
So who was wrong? Was I wrong to cut in front, should I have gone in behind Bear in mind this slip road you really cannot see until you are about 100m from where the lane markings meet at a point. Or was the other drive wrong to have stayed in L1 when it was perfectly clear I was going to emerge right next to them? If I was in their position I would have moved over - L2 was empty so no issue there.
Annoyingly further up the lane markings force the outside lane of the DC to move over to the left, and the inside lane further over. I follow the lane markings... and end up cutting up the same guy because he ignores the lane markings, goes straight on and gives me the horn again.
I would always move out unless its easy to make a gap for them or its obvious no-one is there.
As for joining on, goodness I have loss count of how many people I have to follow onto that carriageway at 40mph - it's more dangerous going slowly than matching the speed of the traffic. And frustrating when said person immediately joins L2 and accelerates to 70mph once on the carriageway!
Sorry but unless the sliproad became a lane on the m/way - d/carriageway then it is ultimately up to the joining traffic to give way to vehicles already on the road being joined, this is what i refered to further up, what I would have done in your situation would have been applied a squirt of gas and joined a wee bit further in front to avoid him feeling crowded.So who was wrong? Was I wrong to cut in front, should I have gone in behind Bear in mind this slip road you really cannot see until you are about 100m from where the lane markings meet at a point. Or was the other drive wrong to have stayed in L1 when it was perfectly clear I was going to emerge right next to them? If I was in their position I would have moved over - L2 was empty so no issue there.
Annoyingly further up the lane markings force the outside lane of the DC to move over to the left, and the inside lane further over. I follow the lane markings... and end up cutting up the same guy because he ignores the lane markings, goes straight on and gives me the horn again.
I would always move out unless its easy to make a gap for them or its obvious no-one is there.
As for joining on, goodness I have loss count of how many people I have to follow onto that carriageway at 40mph - it's more dangerous going slowly than matching the speed of the traffic. And frustrating when said person immediately joins L2 and accelerates to 70mph once on the carriageway!
Regards,
Gary
JAF01UK,
Sorry to say but you were in the wrong. But it is a common mistake.
You must give way to the traffic on the Motorway or DCW.
If the visibility is poor, or if the slip road is very short, then you might even have to stop and wait for the traffic to clear completely.
We have a few of these very short and/or blind slip roads close to where I live. We use them to teach this specific point as instructors/observers and examiners.
Sorry to say but you were in the wrong. But it is a common mistake.
You must give way to the traffic on the Motorway or DCW.
If the visibility is poor, or if the slip road is very short, then you might even have to stop and wait for the traffic to clear completely.
We have a few of these very short and/or blind slip roads close to where I live. We use them to teach this specific point as instructors/observers and examiners.
erdnase said:
This is more a collection of random thoughts, rather than a specific question - but I'd love to hear what you guys think.
It concerns passing slip roads on motorways and dual carriageways. Assuming the main road is empty, is it prudent to move out into lane 2 when passing the slip-road? I've always done this, and asked my IAM instructor about it. He told me that I shouldn't really, as I should be watching the slip-road and anticipating traffic joining the main carriageway. Fair enough, and no matter what I do when passing slip-roads, I'm scanning for and anticipating joining traffic. A lot of slip-roads are well sighted, so moving into lane 2 isn't always necessary.
On my daily drive, there's a slip-road that joins a 50mph stretch of dual-carriageway. The sliproad is on a bend and not too well sighted. Even when the roads empty and I'm pressing on a bit, I'll move out to lane 2, just in case. This prevents any last minute need to pull into lane 2 if necessary.
Being honest, it's somewhat satisfying to drive in a smooth line, via lane 2, past this sliproad then back into lane 1. Is there a reason that I shouldn't be doing this? Granted it's not always needed in the majority of sliproads, but in this case I feel it's much smoother and safer.
Also, on 3 lane motorways where a sliproad is merging with traffic in lane 1. If I'm in lane 2, I'll always move over to lane 3 where possible, anticipating that traffic in lane 1 will likely move into lane 2 to help the mergers. It also feels good to just smoothly pass the "rabble" and jockeying for position that goes on when a sliproad merges, without dropping speed.
What do you guys think?
I also do all of the above, rightly or wrongly, as anticipating what might happen next is not only part of my job, it also leads to a less stressful journey It concerns passing slip roads on motorways and dual carriageways. Assuming the main road is empty, is it prudent to move out into lane 2 when passing the slip-road? I've always done this, and asked my IAM instructor about it. He told me that I shouldn't really, as I should be watching the slip-road and anticipating traffic joining the main carriageway. Fair enough, and no matter what I do when passing slip-roads, I'm scanning for and anticipating joining traffic. A lot of slip-roads are well sighted, so moving into lane 2 isn't always necessary.
On my daily drive, there's a slip-road that joins a 50mph stretch of dual-carriageway. The sliproad is on a bend and not too well sighted. Even when the roads empty and I'm pressing on a bit, I'll move out to lane 2, just in case. This prevents any last minute need to pull into lane 2 if necessary.
Being honest, it's somewhat satisfying to drive in a smooth line, via lane 2, past this sliproad then back into lane 1. Is there a reason that I shouldn't be doing this? Granted it's not always needed in the majority of sliproads, but in this case I feel it's much smoother and safer.
Also, on 3 lane motorways where a sliproad is merging with traffic in lane 1. If I'm in lane 2, I'll always move over to lane 3 where possible, anticipating that traffic in lane 1 will likely move into lane 2 to help the mergers. It also feels good to just smoothly pass the "rabble" and jockeying for position that goes on when a sliproad merges, without dropping speed.
What do you guys think?
DaveZ4C said:
JAF01UK,
Sorry to say but you were in the wrong. But it is a common mistake.
You must give way to the traffic on the Motorway or DCW.
If the visibility is poor, or if the slip road is very short, then you might even have to stop and wait for the traffic to clear completely.
We have a few of these very short and/or blind slip roads close to where I live. We use them to teach this specific point as instructors/observers and examiners.
Some good points there. I did attempt to accelerate to move in ahead as suggested, but my car doesn't do much in the way of acceleration (despite being in 4th), and I was more concerned with running out of slip road. I've learnt from it, hopefully I can avoid repeating this.Sorry to say but you were in the wrong. But it is a common mistake.
You must give way to the traffic on the Motorway or DCW.
If the visibility is poor, or if the slip road is very short, then you might even have to stop and wait for the traffic to clear completely.
We have a few of these very short and/or blind slip roads close to where I live. We use them to teach this specific point as instructors/observers and examiners.
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