Undertaking accross an empty

[Triggerwave]

Undertaking accross an empty while driving on a British motorway.

I was wondering if it is illgal to undertake cars in lane three while driving in lane one if lane two is empty.

I ask because it is becomming increasingly common to see long car convoys in lane three (often traveling significantly below the national speed limit) while both lanes one and two are completly empty. The big temptation for me is to get into lane one and creep (relative to thier speed) past individual cars.

Triggerwave

[technogogo]

I know what you mean. Under the conditions you describe I often choose to sit in lane 1 simply to get sufficient forward visibility and avoid the risk of being caught up in a sudden squash. Then when lane 3 starts to slow down, through sheer density of traffic (and drivers!) it puts you in a tricky spot.

But aren't you allowed to undertake if traffic is moving in queues? I am not sure of the precise definition of a queue. But often a crammed full lane 3 moving at 50-60mph looks like a queue to me!

[StressedDave]

There is no specific law of 'undertaking' under the Road Traffic Act and it's a gray area at best. You could be prosecuted for driving without reasonable consideration if another road user is affected by your actions, as could the cars sitting in lane 3 instead of clearing to the left.

[nerfherder]

StressedDave said:

There is no specific law of 'undertaking' under the Road Traffic Act and it's a gray area at best. You could be prosecuted for driving without reasonable consideration if another road user is affected by your actions, as could the cars sitting in lane 3 instead of clearing to the left.

Yes, this.

Another way of putting it -

Highway Code said:

163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

• only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

Note that the Highway code says "should", not "must/must not"

The Introductory section explains the difference:

Highway Code said:

Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. An explanation of the abbreviations can be found in 'The road user and the law'.

Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see 'The road user and the law') to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

So, overtaking in the way described by the OP is not in itself an offence, but may be used as evidence to establish liability.

Edited by nerfherder on Thursday 2nd April 15:34

[HellDiver]

Wow, this is like the 3rd thread to discuss this today alone.

It's perfectly legal to pass morons going slow in the middle or outside lane.

[7db]

...but you have to check that they are morons first.

[Henry Hawthorne]

7db said:

...but you have to check that they are morons first.

Person sitting in outside lane whilst inside lane is clear = moron.

[Red Kite]

Part of the reason for the build up of traffic in lanes two and three, whilst lane one is empty, is because all those drivers queuing have the mistaken belief that if a car is travelling slowly in an outer lane, they aren't allowed to continue their progress in lane one, or wherever they were. Once you ignore them and continue, you will see others suddenly getting the message and following you instead.

Edited by Red Kite on Tuesday 31st March 18:25

[7db]

Henry Hawthorne said:

7db said:

...but you have to check that they are morons first.

Person sitting in outside lane whilst inside lane is clear = moron.

Of course it's this sort of judgement that is critical to ensuring that you have the right attitude when driving.

[7mike]

Triggerwave said:

I ask because it is becomming increasingly common to see long car convoys in lane three (often traveling significantly below the national speed limit) while both lanes one and two are completly empty. Triggerwave

Is this something of a gross exaggeration, or do we simply use different motorways?

[RT106]

The usual reason there are queues is that there's an obstruction ahead that prevents progress in lanes one or two, ie. two HGVs racing at 56 mph +/- 0.0001mph. If you undertake the resultant queue you must then push back into the queue to pass the obstruction.

I have no problem with undertaking if you're approaching your exit, but undertaking drivers patiently waiting in lane three only to push back in further along the road is not on in my book.

[7mike]

RT106 said:

The usual reason there are queues is that there's an obstruction ahead that prevents progress in lanes one or two, ie. two HGVs racing at 56 mph +/- 0.0001mph. If you undertake the resultant queue you must then push back into the queue to pass the obstruction.

I have no problem with undertaking if you're approaching your exit, but undertaking drivers patiently waiting in lane three only to push back in further along the road is not on in my book.

LGVs in L1 & 2 wouldn't be quite such a problem if drivers didn't feel the need to slow down to +0.0002mph to pass in L3. Ever passed an LGV then stayed out to pass the car that's moved in ahead only to find he now puts his foot down?

Edited by 7mike on Wednesday 1st April 19:10

[Henry Hawthorne]

7db said:

Henry Hawthorne said:

7db said:

...but you have to check that they are morons first.

Person sitting in outside lane whilst inside lane is clear = moron.

Of course it's this sort of judgement that is critical to ensuring that you have the right attitude when driving.

No-one in inside lane. No option to turn right. No obstruction/hazard in inside lane. So how are they not a moron?

Sorry if I offended you King of Driving.

[7db]

More important than that -- how does it affect your driving and your behaviour towards them if you brand them morons?

[Henry Hawthorne]

7db said:

More important than that -- how does it affect your driving and your behaviour towards them if you brand them morons?

Concentrate more on what they're doing, and try and anticipate what they will do next more than a "normal" driver, since it's clear they have a flagrant disregard for other road users.

[Flashheart]

.... and they're morons!

[RobM77]

Something that I get a lot is late at night I'll be driving in lane one on a virtually empty motorway and I come across a slower solo car in lane two or in three. What is the recommended course of action for each case?

[7db]

Use lane three or lane four?

[smallgun]

If I'm travelling in lane 1 (nearside) and I'm catching up a vehicle which is travelling in the middle or outside lane (assuming 3 lanes here) Why should I be forced to either move to the outside lane to pass or move to the outside lane and wait for the vehicle in that lane to realise I'm there and perhaps move to allow me to pass?
I think it's much safer to stay where I am, give a flash on the lights to let them know I'm there, If there is no reaction then I'll pass, with care, on the inside. My rational being that if they do decide to move over then I've got the hard shoulder to move onto.
There are many permutations to this problem I don't think there is any black or white answer. The problem encounter should be judged on its particular circumstances at the time and a decision made as to which is the safest course of action to take.

[RobM77]

7db said:

Use lane three or lane four?

Thanks. That works if they're in lane 2, but what if they're in lane 3 of a three lane motorway? Should I move from one to three then wait for them to move from three to two (I'd feel like the Red Arrows! It's 100% legal and ok though with no doubt or grey areas), or should I just keep driving in lane one and no-one has to change lanes?