Driving Test Procedure - Instant Fail Question

[Jarama79]

On Wednesday, a friend of mine failed her driving test. After a couple of cancelled tests this was her first attempt at her practical. As the title suggests, she failed instantly by making a really stupid error; her instructor’s car wasn’t in neutral when she first turned the ignition, car lurched forward (we’ve all done it) and she was given an instant fail by the examiner.

Now she knows this was a silly, silly mistake, she was dreadfully nervous but it was ultimately her fault, however despite her test car being parked a safe distance away from other cars, buildings, etc, the examiner took this basic (but fundamental) error as being dangerous and refused to allow the practical test to continue. Consequently, he did not take my friend out on the road to assess her practical driving skills.

The neutral thing was a stupid mistake but not wholly my friend’s fault; she drove her instructors car to the test station, parked the car and left it in neutral. Whilst waiting for her examiner, her instructor went outside to move the car as it had become blocked-in by another vehicle. The instructor left the car in gear and has offered to pay £20 towards her re-test!

I would like to know, was the examiner within his rights to terminate the test? The DSA website states re: Practical driving tests;

"Throughout the test you should drive in the way your instructor has taught you. If you make a mistake, don't worry about it, it might be a less serious driving fault and may not affect your result. The examiner will be looking for an overall safe standard of driving.

You can make up to 15 driving faults and still pass the test (16 or more results in failure). However, if you commit one serious or dangerous fault you will fail the test. If at any time your examiner considers you to be a danger to other road users your test will be stopped."

I am not disputing the fact that my friend failed, however, this ‘serious fault’ was committed well away from any vehicles, buildings or pedestrians and my friend had fully checked her mirrors immediately prior to starting the car so I don't understand how her error could be deemed as being “a danger to other road users”. I think the examiners stance of refusing to take my friend out on the road is at odds with the DSA’s ‘Safe driving for life’ motto. Should he even have told my friend that she had fallen at the first hurdle? I feel it would have been more constructive to have taken my friend out on a test route to assess and grade all aspects of her driving, despite her silly mistake and give her some genuine feedback but still fail her, practice makes perfect, etc. To abruptly cut short her test and refuse to take her out on the road, I find disgraceful. The test car was fitted with dual controls so the examiner was ultimately in control of any further faults, serious or otherwise that my friend may or may not have committed throughout her test. Her test was the last test of the day (3:30pm) and despite hearsay about daily pass-rate quotas, I get the impression that the examiner wanted an early finish.

To say I think my friend has been hard done by is an understatement, she is upset and I am angry. I think she should be entitled to a free re-test or a refund for her non-test on the grounds that the test was cancelled prematurely on dubious grounds. Are there any driving examiners or instructors who could advise?

Jarama.

[Hooli]

Examiners are allowed to stop the test at any point if they feel its unsafe to continue as far as i know. Obviously the examiner didn't believe your friend was capable of driving safely.
It does sound harsh but not being there how can we judge? i've no idea what your friend is like, is she likely to have appeared flustered & very nervous? if so that would make it appear like more silly but dangerous mistakes are possible?

[7mike]

"The neutral thing was a stupid mistake but not wholly my friend’s fault"

Your friend could learn a priceless lesson here which unfortunately most drivers don't; take responsibility for your own actions. This was wholly your friends fault, who was never taught from day one to check handbrake/neutral?
How would you feel as an examiner, meeting someone for the first time & straight off seeing that they can not safely carry out lesson 1? What if your friend passed the test, hopped in their dads car & plowed straight into the neighbours kids because they were used to cars being left in neutral?
Sounds a bit harsh, but some people pay a lot more for their mistakes, good luck to your friend on their next test.

[Distant]

Contrary to popular belief, examiners are under pressure to pass more people as it keeps the waiting lists down. So the decision to terminate the test would not have been taken lightly. Without being there its impossible to really comment, but the result of the test would have been a fail anyway so I'm not sure why its such a problem.

Your friend should take it on the chin, learn from it and take some responsibility for her actions. Get another test booked and better luck next time.

Edited to add, the examiner is under no obligation to use the dual controls whatsoever. Its not unusual for the DC's to not even work so its not reasonable for the examiner to be expected to coach people round.

I wonder if the car lurched forwards so violently the examiner suffered whiplash, it happens!

Edited by Distant on Saturday 21st March 11:14

[GreenV8S]

Jarama79 said:

The neutral thing was a stupid mistake but not wholly my friend’s fault;

It was her fault for using a poor technique to start the car, and the instructor's fault for not teaching her how to start the car safely. If he felt guilty for putting the car into gear without telling her, and didn't feel guilty for letting her get as far as her test without teaching her how to start the car safely, then IMO he's an incompetent teacher. If she *did* know how to start the car safely but 'forgot' in the excitement, then it's entirely her fault and she probably wasn't ready to take her test.

[7mike]

GreenV8S said:

Jarama79 said:

The neutral thing was a stupid mistake but not wholly my friend’s fault;

It was her fault for using a poor technique to start the car, and the instructor's fault for not teaching her how to start the car safely. If he felt guilty for putting the car into gear without telling her, and didn't feel guilty for letting her get as far as her test without teaching her how to start the car safely, then IMO he's an incompetent teacher. If she *did* know how to start the car safely but 'forgot' in the excitement, then it's entirely her fault and she probably wasn't ready to take her test.

Agreed, it's her fault (see earlier post) However have you ever watched a pupil under test conditions? Believe it or not they are not all super cool under pressure. It is much more likely that she was taught correctly but due to nerves simply forgot to check. Perhaps there are some instructors out there so incompetent that they forget to teach the most basics of lesson one; check handbrake / neutral, but somehow I doubt it.

Edited by 7mike on Saturday 21st March 13:08

[anonymous-user]

I suppose you could argue that it was a bit harsh to terminate the test (certainly a fail, though the examiner could have let the test continue if he wanted), but he was well within his rights to terminate the test if he felt it wasn't safe. I can see where he's coming from though, if the very first thing that a candidate does is dangerous then it hardly inspires confidence.

As has been said, a valuable lesson could be learned here, ALWAYS clutch down and check for neutral before you start a car. Doesn't matter if you drove it last, doesn't matter if you're the only one who drives it, doesn't matter if you only stopped a few minutes previously, it only takes a few seconds to check and it will save you from starting in-gear one day.

7mike said:

Agreed, it's her fault (see earlier post) However have you ever watched a pupil under test conditions? Believe it or not they are not all super cool under pressure. Have you considered the possibility that she was taught correctly but due to nerves simply forgot to check?

This may sound a tad harsh, but that just doesn't cut it IMO (and I doubt that "I was nervous" would be any consolation to somebody if they'd been hit by the car in that situation). This will probably be a bit controversial, but if you can't keep calm under pressure then maybe driving isn't for you. Things aren't always easy on the roads and people who get nervous and panic under pressure are some of the most dangerous drivers out there. They're the ones who pull out without looking, who suddenly jam the brakes on and swerve across several lanes of traffic, who make rash and unpredictable moves and generally cause absolute chaos.

NB the point of this post isn't to claim that I'm a super-cool driver who never makes mistakes. Of course I do, but I also take responsibility for those mistakes and pay the price. In this case, I don't think the candidate has any cause for complaint

Edited by Symbolica on Saturday 21st March 13:07

[clarkmagpie]

her fault.
no doubt about it.

she proved she cant even start the car correctly.

[Nigel Worc's]

clarkmagpie said:

her fault.
no doubt about it.

she proved she cant even start the car correctly.

But....we've all done it, just not on our test !

Good luck to her on her next attempt !

[7mike]

Symbolica said:

I suppose you could argue that it was a bit harsh to terminate the test (certainly a fail, though the examiner could have let the test continue if he wanted), but he was well within his rights to terminate the test if he felt it wasn't safe. I can see where he's coming from though, if the very first thing that a candidate does is dangerous then it hardly inspires confidence.

As has been said, a valuable lesson could be learned here, ALWAYS clutch down and check for neutral before you start a car. Doesn't matter if you drove it last, doesn't matter if you're the only one who drives it, doesn't matter if you only stopped a few minutes previously, it only takes a few seconds to check and it will save you from starting in-gear one day.

7mike said:

Agreed, it's her fault (see earlier post) However have you ever watched a pupil under test conditions? Believe it or not they are not all super cool under pressure. Have you considered the possibility that she was taught correctly but due to nerves simply forgot to check?

This may sound a tad harsh, but that just doesn't cut it IMO (and I doubt that "I was nervous" would be any consolation to somebody if they'd been hit by the car in that situation). This will probably be a bit controversial, but if you can't keep calm under pressure then maybe driving isn't for you. Things aren't always easy on the roads and people who get nervous and panic under pressure are some of the most dangerous drivers out there. They're the ones who pull out without looking, who suddenly jam the brakes on and swerve across several lanes of traffic, who make rash and unpredictable moves and generally cause absolute chaos.

NB the point of this post isn't to claim that I'm a super-cool driver who never makes mistakes. Of course I do, but I also take responsibility for those mistakes and pay the price. In this case, I don't think the candidate has any cause for complaint

Edited by Symbolica on Saturday 21st March 13:07

First off I have already stated that it was her fault 100%.
As for nerves, those that suffer least (relating this to driving tests) happen to be young male drivers, who perhaps coincidentally form the highest risk group on the road.
I generally get nervious on test, & there have been a lot of them; IAM, RoSPA (Gold + Dip) ADI (+check tests) LGV / PCV & others. Are you saying I shouldn't drive?

[anonymous-user]

7mike said:

First off I have already stated that it was her fault 100%.
As for nerves, those that suffer least (relating this to driving tests) happen to be young male drivers, who perhaps coincidentally form the highest risk group on the road.
I generally get nervious on test, & there have been a lot of them; IAM, RoSPA (Gold + Dip) ADI (+check tests) LGV / PCV & others. Are you saying I shouldn't drive?

Test nerves are 100% natural (and god knows, we all get them!), but if under stress you forget the basics and start to perform dangerous actions then no, you shouldn't be driving (or, in this case, you're not ready to pass yet).

BTW, when I say "you" in my posts I'm speaking generally, they're not meant to appear personal

[7mike]

Symbolica said:

7mike said:

First off I have already stated that it was her fault 100%.
As for nerves, those that suffer least (relating this to driving tests) happen to be young male drivers, who perhaps coincidentally form the highest risk group on the road.
I generally get nervious on test, & there have been a lot of them; IAM, RoSPA (Gold + Dip) ADI (+check tests) LGV / PCV & others. Are you saying I shouldn't drive?

Test nerves are 100% natural (and god knows, we all get them!), but if under stress you forget the basics and start to perform dangerous actions then no, you shouldn't be driving (or, in this case, you're not ready to pass yet).

BTW, when I say "you" in my posts I'm speaking generally, they're not meant to appear personal

Wasn't taken personally, just used my own circumstances as an example.

I do think those who can stay calm & confident under test conditions are no less likely to panic or freeze in a situation beyond their knowledge & capabilities. Take the young lad zipping around the country lanes like he's god's gift. Something unexpected round the corner & his brain will likely to lock up in equal measure with his brakes.
When I taught learners I sat in on one test in particular when my pupil reacted late to a cyclist as she came round a left hand bend (there was a good cross view over the hedges which she missed). No harm done but failed the test. In hindsight this was a great learning opportunity for both of us & she passed next time comfortably & is a much better driver for it.

[crisisjez]

As modern cars are quite capable of making progress in gear without the need for throttle command from the driver I`d say the decision to stop the test would have imprinted a very strong and valid technique on your friends mind.

The examiner did his job IMO.

I am however surprised about the number of people who have not been taught to start the car with the clutch depressed, interestingly enough the manufacturers are spending money producing cars that require the clutch to be depressed to complete the starting circuit.

[R60EST]

crisisjez said:

As modern cars are quite capable of making progress in gear without the need for throttle command from the driver I`d say the decision to stop the test would have imprinted a very strong and valid technique on your friends mind.

The examiner did his job IMO.

I am however surprised about the number of people who have not been taught to start the car with the clutch depressed, interestingly enough the manufacturers are spending money producing cars that require the clutch to be depressed to complete the starting circuit.

My A6 has this feature and it's very annoying

[7mike]

R60EST said:

crisisjez said:

As modern cars are quite capable of making progress in gear without the need for throttle command from the driver I`d say the decision to stop the test would have imprinted a very strong and valid technique on your friends mind.

The examiner did his job IMO.

I am however surprised about the number of people who have not been taught to start the car with the clutch depressed, interestingly enough the manufacturers are spending money producing cars that require the clutch to be depressed to complete the starting circuit.

My A6 has this feature and it's very annoying

Don't see why it should be an issue, not a bad idea to de-clutch before starting (even less of an issue in my A6 as its an auto).

[Nigel Worc's]

I never declutch before starting, on the bike, or in the car !

When I say that, I mean I don't hold the clutch, I may press it to get neutral on the car (the bike will already be in neutral).

[Flanders.]

I drive alot of different car's for work, so I ALWAYS press the clutch in to start it.

[flemke]

Nigel Worc's said:

I never declutch before starting, on the bike, or in the car !

When I say that, I mean I don't hold the clutch, I may press it to get neutral on the car (the bike will already be in neutral).

Starting with the clutch engaged makes the battery do a bit more work. I declutch when starting in case the battery's low (in addition to maintaining a good habit lest the vehicle is in gear).

[Nigel Worc's]

flemke said:

Nigel Worc's said:

I never declutch before starting, on the bike, or in the car !

When I say that, I mean I don't hold the clutch, I may press it to get neutral on the car (the bike will already be in neutral).

Starting with the clutch engaged makes the battery do a bit more work. I declutch when starting in case the battery's low (in addition to maintaining a good habit lest the vehicle is in gear).

I check its in neutral lol.

The battery bit is the same kind of fairytale as resting your hand on the gearlever wears out the linkages, using the ratchet on the handbrake wears it out etc.

It doesn't happen lol, you could be hit by a comet, but you don't walk around with a comet deflection device strapped to your head.

I can't subscribe to this if if if if stuff.

When was the last time you had a flat battery....and why ?

Batteries don't tend to go low now, its instant fail.

[Nigel Worc's]

Fair enough Martin, you've helped me greatly, many thanks.

I'll go back to school and relearn everyting I thought I knew, whats the word i'm looking for....rhymes with anchor....any ideas ?



Its a wonder some of you ever drive a car or get anything done, all these if i do this, if I do that !