Merging onto a motorway when the slip road is finishing
Discussion
I have asked various people this question but never got a satisfactory, helpful response. I also get conflicting answers.
When joining a motorway where the slip road ends, what do you do if you cannot find a suitable gap? Now, there are motorways where there is a hard shoulder. Some say it is ok to drive on this to get onto the motorway. It's also safer then stopping on the slip road when there are cars behind doing 50-60mph and paying more attention to the traffic they need to merge into.
BUT:
It is said that it is illegal to use the hard shoulder in this way. But if you broke down on the hard shoulder, you cannot just merge into the motorway traffic. It takes an ordinary car about 9-10 seconds to reach 60mph (most people driving ordinary family saloons like Mondeos, etc). That's not enough acceleration when there are cars doing 60mph+ and covering plenty of metres a second. On the other hand, I have seen people merge into an M road from a stand still, on TV (like in road wars).
It is also deemed illegal to stop on the slip road, and I can understand why. But if the road is busy, there isn't much choice. Furthermore, this law is so screwed up - when the road I am merging into is at a standstill, I obviously have to stop on the slip road. Is this illegal? Exactly.
In the real world, there is going to be a rare ocassion where you are going to be faced with this situation (I should say I). I drive on 2 motorways everyday when going to work so I have the "it takes practise" argument sorted. But at least knowing the theory will help improve my confidence. So what would I do? I can't just stop and I won't always be able to merge into traffic. I have always been able to merge in as the car behind has been considerate enough but this won't always be the case. There are drivers who would close the gap with no need. Even worse, it will be a problem if there is a speeding emergency vehicle on call in the lane I want to merge into. I know I am just dreaming up situations but all of these are possible (I have seen them but not when I am driving).
What can I do in these circumstances?
When joining a motorway where the slip road ends, what do you do if you cannot find a suitable gap? Now, there are motorways where there is a hard shoulder. Some say it is ok to drive on this to get onto the motorway. It's also safer then stopping on the slip road when there are cars behind doing 50-60mph and paying more attention to the traffic they need to merge into.
BUT:
It is said that it is illegal to use the hard shoulder in this way. But if you broke down on the hard shoulder, you cannot just merge into the motorway traffic. It takes an ordinary car about 9-10 seconds to reach 60mph (most people driving ordinary family saloons like Mondeos, etc). That's not enough acceleration when there are cars doing 60mph+ and covering plenty of metres a second. On the other hand, I have seen people merge into an M road from a stand still, on TV (like in road wars).
It is also deemed illegal to stop on the slip road, and I can understand why. But if the road is busy, there isn't much choice. Furthermore, this law is so screwed up - when the road I am merging into is at a standstill, I obviously have to stop on the slip road. Is this illegal? Exactly.
In the real world, there is going to be a rare ocassion where you are going to be faced with this situation (I should say I). I drive on 2 motorways everyday when going to work so I have the "it takes practise" argument sorted. But at least knowing the theory will help improve my confidence. So what would I do? I can't just stop and I won't always be able to merge into traffic. I have always been able to merge in as the car behind has been considerate enough but this won't always be the case. There are drivers who would close the gap with no need. Even worse, it will be a problem if there is a speeding emergency vehicle on call in the lane I want to merge into. I know I am just dreaming up situations but all of these are possible (I have seen them but not when I am driving).
What can I do in these circumstances?
OK. When joining you MUST give way to traffic on the motorway.
You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for anything except it's intended purpose. It is NOT ok to use it as a continuation of the slip road.
So what's to do?
(1) Observe the traffic on the motorway very early.
(2) If there is NO chance of joining slow to a crawl WELL back using your observations - see if a gap becomes available
(3) If you've got to the end of the slip whilst doing (1) and (2) above chances are the traffic in Lane 1 is moving at 5mph or less. You've got to hope a gap will become available or some kind soul will let you in.
Following the above I have NEVER got to the end of the slip without merging. Even at 5mph someone lets you in before that.
You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for anything except it's intended purpose. It is NOT ok to use it as a continuation of the slip road.
So what's to do?
(1) Observe the traffic on the motorway very early.
(2) If there is NO chance of joining slow to a crawl WELL back using your observations - see if a gap becomes available
(3) If you've got to the end of the slip whilst doing (1) and (2) above chances are the traffic in Lane 1 is moving at 5mph or less. You've got to hope a gap will become available or some kind soul will let you in.
Following the above I have NEVER got to the end of the slip without merging. Even at 5mph someone lets you in before that.
Don said:
OK. When joining you MUST give way to traffic on the motorway.
You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for anything except it's intended purpose. It is NOT ok to use it as a continuation of the slip road.
That's interesting, Don, I've always believed the opposite to that (and indeed is what my local IAM group advocated) - and that's to continue into the hardshoulder if available to use.You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for anything except it's intended purpose. It is NOT ok to use it as a continuation of the slip road.
I've never been in the situation where I've needed to - like you've said in your points above, one always tends to work.
TonyHetherington said:
Don said:
OK. When joining you MUST give way to traffic on the motorway.
You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for anything except it's intended purpose. It is NOT ok to use it as a continuation of the slip road.
That's interesting, Don, I've always believed the opposite to that (and indeed is what my local IAM group advocated) - and that's to continue into the hardshoulder if available to use.You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for anything except it's intended purpose. It is NOT ok to use it as a continuation of the slip road.
I've never been in the situation where I've needed to - like you've said in your points above, one always tends to work.
Distant said:
I'm amazed at your local IAM giving such poor advice. There's a give way line at the end of the slip road and a solid line protecting the hard shoulder. You should sit and wait at the give way like you would any other junction, although with good forward planning you should rarely have to come to a complete stop.
Yup, that was 100% definitely their continued advice (I was an observer there for 4yrs).For clarity, the highway code's take on this...
I'm certain the advice they gave was to continue. But I'm questioning myself now. I am able to check though, as I did some work on a new motorway video (though I never finished it) but wrote out the script of the "current" one which is at home - I will double check tonight, for my own satisfaction as much as anything.
highwaycode said:
Driving on the motorway
259
Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should
-give priority to traffic already on the motorway
-check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
-not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
-stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
-remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking
(my bold).259
Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should
-give priority to traffic already on the motorway
-check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
-not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
-stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
-remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking
I'm certain the advice they gave was to continue. But I'm questioning myself now. I am able to check though, as I did some work on a new motorway video (though I never finished it) but wrote out the script of the "current" one which is at home - I will double check tonight, for my own satisfaction as much as anything.
Here's a thing.
Whatever the Highway Code may say if I need to use the hard shoulder to escape danger then, provided it is clear, I most certainly will do so. If I fecked up joining the motorway so badly that I needed to escape running into something by using the shoulder - then I would.
...BUT...
I would also view needing to use the hard shoulder as a horrendous failure in observation and planning. It isn't legal. It's just not necessary.
As an IAM Observer I would NEVER advise anyone to use the hard shoulder other than for it's legal, recognised purpose. Except perhaps in the manner I outline above. In a s
t or Bust, death defying but life saving manouevre.
Whatever the Highway Code may say if I need to use the hard shoulder to escape danger then, provided it is clear, I most certainly will do so. If I fecked up joining the motorway so badly that I needed to escape running into something by using the shoulder - then I would.
...BUT...
I would also view needing to use the hard shoulder as a horrendous failure in observation and planning. It isn't legal. It's just not necessary.
As an IAM Observer I would NEVER advise anyone to use the hard shoulder other than for it's legal, recognised purpose. Except perhaps in the manner I outline above. In a s
t or Bust, death defying but life saving manouevre.HellDiver said:
(4) The slip road is very short and you've come across 4 trucks and 5 cars all playing hypermiling.
So why weren't you waiting further back? So when you have spotted a gap you'll have a run up at it? After all. As a gap it will be moving at the speed of the traffic in Lane 1 and you'll need to match that speed.I think slip roads are stupid and a flawed concept. At 50mph you use up all of the slip road very quickly.
If you stop at the slip road (which is meant to be illegal and is dangerous), you are going to need a very big gap to join. A standard car takes 10 seconds to get to 60mph, which is very slow. A car coming at 60mph is going to make up ground very quickly.
So really, both approaches are not allowed but it is about which is the lesser of two evils. I don't see a danger with using the slip road in a worst case situation, but I can think of plenty of dangers with stopping. If you can't use the hard shoulder to join in an emergency, then you are essentially saying you can't use the hard shoulder to join if you broke down on there.
What is hypermiling?
Tony: Now you know what I mean by grey area
If you stop at the slip road (which is meant to be illegal and is dangerous), you are going to need a very big gap to join. A standard car takes 10 seconds to get to 60mph, which is very slow. A car coming at 60mph is going to make up ground very quickly.
So really, both approaches are not allowed but it is about which is the lesser of two evils. I don't see a danger with using the slip road in a worst case situation, but I can think of plenty of dangers with stopping. If you can't use the hard shoulder to join in an emergency, then you are essentially saying you can't use the hard shoulder to join if you broke down on there.
What is hypermiling?
Tony: Now you know what I mean by grey area
Z064life said:
If you stop at the slip road (which is meant to be illegal and is dangerous)
There's a give way line separating the end of the slip road fro the carriageway. It's not illegal to stop there is proceeding would cause risk and impediment to those on the motorway already.It's only dangerous because people on slip roads tend to view it as their right to join the MWay as soon as possible and that people in lane 1 HAVE to get out of their way!
On one of the police TV series a few years ago, trafpol came across a car stopped at the end of the slip road on a busy motorway (they may have been there for some time)
The instruction was to accelerate up the hard shoulder before joining.
The instruction was to accelerate up the hard shoulder before joining.
Edited by henrycrun on Thursday 19th March 17:31
Z064life said:
I think slip roads are stupid and a flawed concept. At 50mph you use up all of the slip road very quickly.
So what alternative do you propose?Z064life said:
If you stop at the slip road (which is meant to be illegal and is dangerous), you are going to need a very big gap to join. A standard car takes 10 seconds to get to 60mph, which is very slow. A car coming at 60mph is going to make up ground very quickly.
Not sure what your point is here. I (along with others on this thread) have never had to stop at the end of a slip road. Unless the traffic is moving very slowly (below 10MPH), I can't imagine a situation where this means anything other than you've completely f
ked up your approach.Z064life said:
So really, both approaches are not allowed but it is about which is the lesser of two evils. I don't see a danger with using the slip road in a worst case situation, but I can think of plenty of dangers with stopping. If you can't use the hard shoulder to join in an emergency, then you are essentially saying you can't use the hard shoulder to join if you broke down on there.
What emergency? Running out of road because you haven't approached the Give Way markings correctly is not an emergency. If the hard shoulder wasn't there would you think it acceptable to drive along the footpath/verge? You are allowed to use the HS to slow to a stop in a breakdown etc, and you can use it to build speed afterwards. How do you get on and off the HS if you can't use it when moving? Z064life said:
What is hypermiling?
I think its something to do with maintaining a constant speed (and screw everyone else) to achieve maximum fuel economy. Normally practised by the sort of people that operate* a Prius- I say operate because to say drive would, in most cases, be an exaggeration
Just out of curiosity, has anyone here joined the M6 at Lancaster, Northbound?
It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
PeterA said:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone here joined the M6 at Lancaster, Northbound?
It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
Horribly poor visibility too - it's a 90 degree left hander, up quite a steep incline in order to meet the bridge. You can't see anything behind you for the armco and the carriageway foundations. I'd say you have at most a second to decide whether to brake (hard!) or to go for it. There's absolutely no "run off" past the give way line, as the bridge itself has no hard shoulder. Surprised more people don't crash there!It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
As I see matters, it's about matching the speed of the vehicles in lane one, and ensuring that you are best placed to 'slip' into a gap that may be available...
A technique I use frequently, is to 'try' and have a look at the motorway before you offer any commitment to joining it - drive over bridges etc (granted, not available on that dreaded junction on the M6) and ensure that;
A) Traffic is free flowing and you will not have any issues joining the motorway (standing traffic etc.)
B) Understand what is likely to be in L1 at the point of entry - this will define your approach...
For example, if there are a number of LGV's in L1 - they are likely to be travelling at 56mph and your approach and join speed (reccomend 55mph) should be sympathetic to their constraints... If the motorway is quieter then a different approach could be adopted...
Key thing is, you have to 'give way' to traffic already on the MW - they have a right of way. Timing your approach is the key... Do not feel rushed to join any MW...
As for the hard shoulder debate, only you can make 'this call' at any one point - if you use it, you have to accept the consequences - if I was at a 'st or bust' point with a LGV, and this was my only escape route, then it would be more attractive than Girls Aloud...
Key thing it, don't get to 'st or Bust'
A technique I use frequently, is to 'try' and have a look at the motorway before you offer any commitment to joining it - drive over bridges etc (granted, not available on that dreaded junction on the M6) and ensure that;
A) Traffic is free flowing and you will not have any issues joining the motorway (standing traffic etc.)
B) Understand what is likely to be in L1 at the point of entry - this will define your approach...
For example, if there are a number of LGV's in L1 - they are likely to be travelling at 56mph and your approach and join speed (reccomend 55mph) should be sympathetic to their constraints... If the motorway is quieter then a different approach could be adopted...
Key thing is, you have to 'give way' to traffic already on the MW - they have a right of way. Timing your approach is the key... Do not feel rushed to join any MW...
As for the hard shoulder debate, only you can make 'this call' at any one point - if you use it, you have to accept the consequences - if I was at a 's
t or bust' point with a LGV, and this was my only escape route, then it would be more attractive than Girls Aloud...Key thing it, don't get to 's
t or Bust' I see my prayers haven't been answered.
You want a speed differential with L1 traffic to find the gap. I'd hold a slightly higher speed than L1 traffic. Your brake is much more effective than your accelerator. Provided you can on this without antagonising traffic in L1 with its priority n'all.
You want a speed differential with L1 traffic to find the gap. I'd hold a slightly higher speed than L1 traffic. Your brake is much more effective than your accelerator. Provided you can on this without antagonising traffic in L1 with its priority n'all.
PeterA said:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone here joined the M6 at Lancaster, Northbound?
It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
It is the nearest motorway junction to me, and it is awful. I understand it is due to be rebuilt when they build the new Lancaster bypass, but that won't be for another few years. The junction was only ever meant to be an emergency access when the motorway was originally built, but the local people protested and the county council agreed to open it for general traffic as well - but very few improvements were made and that is why the junction is so tight. The M6 past Lancaster was two lanes wide originally, but when they widened it they didn't bother with widening the bridge, they just got rid of the hard shoulder, which means if you can't get onto the motorway you have absolutely nowhere to go.It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
Luckily most local and lorry drivers seem to be aware of the situation and pull into lane 2 if they see anything coming up the slip road; however I have seen many occasions where people have stopped at the end of the slip road waiting to pull out - there is no choice apart from to stop and give way here!
On a 'normal' motorway, whilst it may be illegal, un-recommended and unlikely, I would rather drive onto the hard shoulder (providing it was clear) than stop at the end of a slip road.
OK having read this thread I can think of one slip road in particular where this does happen and I frequently see cars stopped and waiting to join the motorway. This is the westbound slip up onto the elevated section of the M4 at Brentford, the first slip access up onto the motorway after the start before the Chiswick roundabout. The traffic on the Westbound M4 there is always heavy and runs at anything from stationary to 40mph. There is usually someone stranded at the end of the very short, inclined ramp, and of course there is no hard shoulder to run onto which makes it interesting. It's never happened to me because like most people this thread I always manage to plan a way to join but for less capable drivers it can be difficult - images of an old lady stuck in a Morris Minor come to mind 
PeterA said:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone here joined the M6 at Lancaster, Northbound?
It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
Shortest in the country isn't it? Certainly no time for faffing around there. It's a horribly short slip road - it joins the motorway just before a bridge over a river. As you round the corner, you've got to make a decision pretty much instantly, whether to go for it or ease back a bit. It's got potential to be the base of a very nasty accident.
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