Overtaking question

[RobM77]

I'm having a recurring problem when overtaking, and I wondered if anyone had any ideas of how to avoid it. Due to the roads I drive on I probably overtake on average 2 or 3 times a week and follow the exact procedure I was taught and have read (which normally works superbly). This problem has occured twice recently though...

What happens is when I pull out to have a look prior to accelerating past, the vehicle that was behind me accelerates hard into the gap I've left, thus preventing me from tucking back in should I decide to abort. This may happen more frequently than I notice, but obviously I mainly notice if I do decide to move back in again. Both times this has happened I've aborted by accelerating forwards and creating a new gap for myself.
Both my cars are right hand drive, so I've tried to not move out completely, but this failed this morning as a van still managed to squeeze through the gap that I'd left!

This is quite a dangerous situation to be in, so does anyone have any ideas or thoughts?

[HellDiver]

It's not your driving that's at fault, it's the morons behind. Go back for your space, if they hit you it's their problem.

[erdnase]

HellDiver said:

It's not your driving that's at fault, it's the morons behind. Go back for your space, if they hit you it's their problem.

Reminds me of a tombstone inscription:


Here lays the body of Frederick Gray,
Who died defending his right of way.
His path was clear, his will was strong,
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

Being in the right is scant consolation in these circumstances. I'm sure there's a better option

[7db]

Hard to help without knowing what you are doing.

Half-way peek? Closer following position? Longer following position? Snappier go/no go decision? Use topography of the road to avoid leaving your lane to get nearside/offside/axle view? Slight catching speed? Show brakelights? Indicate in?

Post a video?

[RichB]

RobM77 said:

What happens is when I pull out to have a look prior to accelerating past, the vehicle that was behind me accelerates hard into the gap I've left

Rob, do you realy need to pull fully out to see past the car in front? Surely half a car's width is enough and you've kept your space on the road?

[RobM77]

:-) thanks. One idea I've just thought of is to back off prior to pulling out so I can back the traffic back behind me to give me a bit more space. It could backfire on me though because that would make anyone accelerate again, and possibly make it more likely they'll fill the gap.

[p1esk]

RobM77 said:

:-) thanks. One idea I've just thought of is to back off prior to pulling out so I can back the traffic back behind me to give me a bit more space. It could backfire on me though because that would make anyone accelerate again, and possibly make it more likely they'll fill the gap.

I think you're onto something there. Creating a bit more space fore and aft seems to be the thing to do, and don't move out further than necessary to get a good view. This may discourage Mr Pushy from moving up to occupy the gap you may need to return to in the event of an abort being necessary. Sometimes I'm afraid you do just have to be slightly obstructive to protect your options.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[rsv gone!]

You sure this isn't the last person you overtook (and upset) just being an arse?

You say it is a recurring problem? I've never had that happen to me and I've been driving (enthusiastically) for 20 years. Mind you, I pull out and floor it rather than sit offside for any amount of time. The perpendicular manoeuvre is when I do my check.

[vonhosen]

I temper my position with relation to the proximity of others, so that this kind of thing doesn't occur.

[coxy78]

Easy one. Firstly you are too close to the car in front of you. Obviously depending on speed. eg as the road goes to the right keep to the LEFT hand side of the road as you get what you call a cross view ie you can almost see what the car in front sees. On a nice country road that goes to the left i know this may sound daft but if there is NO cars on the other side of the road go on the wrong side of the road and you WILL be able to see more of the on coming hazard/road. Hope that helps a little. if i've not made myself clear let me know and i'll go into further detail.Ryan. Trust me this works

[944Nick]

Coxy78

That's a partial and, arguably, not wholly accurate explanation of getting a view to see if it's safe to go out for a look, but it doesn't really address Rob's problem.

Rob - do you think there's something about your car's "chassis language" that signals to the following driver that you're definitely going for the overtake and that it's therefore OK to take the space you were previously occupying? For example, do you make a fairly swift move to the offside or accelerate, even slightly, as you move offside?

regards
Nick

[ADJimbo]

As said previously, you need to 'protect' the space around you...

The art of a good take is observation and anticipation, when evaluating a potential overtake, consider the fact that a follower may take your road-space if you go fully offside...

As well as looking for the opportunities in front, check your mirrors, whats happening behind?

If you are being tailgated or have a stream of traffic following you, I would suggest that you need to anticipate that your returning gap may be comprimised...

... if nothing is behind you, then it will not be a problem.

Whats happening behind may well decide on your decision to progress or hold...

Before going fully offside, having a look-see, ask yourself... If my roadspace closes behind, where will I go... If you have the answer... you have the correct evaluation to assess the overtake...

[RobM77]

944Nick said:

Coxy78
Rob - do you think there's something about your car's "chassis language" that signals to the following driver that you're definitely going for the overtake and that it's therefore OK to take the space you were previously occupying? For example, do you make a fairly swift move to the offside or accelerate, even slightly, as you move offside?

Good point, but I'm not aware of that, no. I heel and toe down to the correct gear if necessary, and I don't have a loud exhaust, so no-one would notice or hear that. It's literally just a peak.

Point taken earlier about being able to see to the left. I'm quite anal about it being completely safe before I go though, and I always pause before applying the power and committing. If I'm even slightly unsure then I'll go back again.

Also point taken about someone who's never had this happen! I've been driving 15 years and it's only happen two or three times, all within the last year... I've noticed that people are becoming more and more intolerant to overtaking. When I was a kid in the 80s overtaking was normal, andI distinctly remember my Dad overtaking slower vehicles in our family car, and I remember him letting other cars overtake him if they wanted to. Nowadays though people assume you're the devil's evil twin brother if you even attempt an overtake - even, as with today's incident, you're in a Lotus and the slow vehicle is an old person in a Proton!

Thank you for all the ideas by the way. I think from now on I'm going to a lot more careful about who's behind me and try and judge what mood they're in. And, as much as the advanced instructors I've had in the past have hated "banana" shaped overtaking manouvres, there's something to be said for leaning more towards this approach than the traditional roadcraft method. That's a shame, because the overtaking method taught by the IAM is, in my opinion, absolutely spot on.

[RichB]

RobM77 said:

944Nick said:

Coxy78
Rob - do you think there's something about your car's "chassis language" that signals to the following driver that you're definitely going for the overtake

Good point, but I'm not aware of that, no. I heel and toe down to the correct gear if necessary,

Must confess I'm puzzled why you would "heel-n-toe" when overtaking? HNT implies you are braking and therefore slowing down which you shouldn't be else the guy behind would be pissed off. Did you mean double de-clutch, but you shouldn't need to brake?

[hman]

Recently I've had more problems with the car in front pulling out on me as I am halfway through overtaking both them and the car in front of them (on two occasions this happened when I was half way ALONGSIDE!).

Some nob did this to me on Sunday on the Wing road (Aylesbury to Wing)in a really smart black scooby with a 320 something badge on the back and a rear diffuser did this to me as I overtook him in the wifes volvo turbo baby wagon. I still dont think that he realised that he almost caused a huge crash.

A simple case that most drivers don't use their mirrors to check if anyone is overtaking them before commencing their own overtaking manuever.

To answer Robs original post, hanging back to create a saftey space to abort in to may be an option, but on a two car overtake the scenario above is very prevalent of late.

[RobM77]

RichB said:

RobM77 said:

944Nick said:

Coxy78
Rob - do you think there's something about your car's "chassis language" that signals to the following driver that you're definitely going for the overtake

Good point, but I'm not aware of that, no. I heel and toe down to the correct gear if necessary,

Must confess I'm puzzled why you would "heel-n-toe" when overtaking? HNT implies you are braking and therefore slowing down which you shouldn't be else the guy behind would be pissed off. Did you mean double de-clutch, but you shouldn't need to brake?

Sorry - I meant rev match no braking involved!! It's late and I've had a lot of wine (it's my birthday!).

[RobM77]

hman said:

Recently I've had more problems with the car in front pulling out on me as I am halfway through overtaking both them and the car in front of them (on two occasions this happened when I was half way ALONGSIDE!).

Some nob did this to me on Sunday on the Wing road (Aylesbury to Wing)in a really smart black scooby with a 320 something badge on the back and a rear diffuser did this to me as I overtook him in the wifes volvo turbo baby wagon. I still dont think that he realised that he almost caused a huge crash.

A simple case that most drivers don't use their mirrors to check if anyone is overtaking them before commencing their own overtaking manuever.

I was taught by Hugh Nobblett to flash as you start the overtaking manouvre to alert the other drivers around to your presence. This is certainly very prudent given the common scenario you describe above, but in today's environment on the road I think the risk of inciting road rage is too great, so sorry Hugh, but I don't do this unless it's absolutely necessary. Needless to say, when I have found the need to do this I haven't received any hassle, but I suppose it's only a matter of time.

[ADJimbo]

hman said:

Recently I've had more problems with the car in front pulling out on me as I am halfway through overtaking both them and the car in front of them (on two occasions this happened when I was half way ALONGSIDE!).

Some nob did this to me on Sunday on the Wing road (Aylesbury to Wing)in a really smart black scooby with a 320 something badge on the back and a rear diffuser did this to me as I overtook him in the wifes volvo turbo baby wagon. I still dont think that he realised that he almost caused a huge crash.

A simple case that most drivers don't use their mirrors to check if anyone is overtaking them before commencing their own overtaking manuever.

To answer Robs original post, hanging back to create a saftey space to abort in to may be an option, but on a two car overtake the scenario above is very prevalent of late.

Did you sound your horn? flash your lights? before commencing the overtake...?

[hman]

ADJimbo said:

hman said:

Recently I've had more problems with the car in front pulling out on me as I am halfway through overtaking both them and the car in front of them (on two occasions this happened when I was half way ALONGSIDE!).

Some nob did this to me on Sunday on the Wing road (Aylesbury to Wing)in a really smart black scooby with a 320 something badge on the back and a rear diffuser did this to me as I overtook him in the wifes volvo turbo baby wagon. I still dont think that he realised that he almost caused a huge crash.

A simple case that most drivers don't use their mirrors to check if anyone is overtaking them before commencing their own overtaking manuever.

To answer Robs original post, hanging back to create a saftey space to abort in to may be an option, but on a two car overtake the scenario above is very prevalent of late.

Did you sound your horn? flash your lights? before commencing the overtake...?

??

No, and why not you may ask.

Well seeing as its a bleeding great volvo with swedish headlight settings (on all the time) - I thought that might be overkill!!

However in accordance with the highway code, I did check MY mirrors before indicating and starting the manuever.

Then once the tools began their death inducing moves I gave them full beam, horn, the bloody lot and they swerved back over!

Seriously I wouldnt flash them prior to overtaking though, I reckon that would easily be misconstrued as "hurry up" or "after you". I also dont reckon most people will hear a car horn when you are 2 seconds behind them.

You just have to be aware that people are prone to doing this sort of idiotic thing and expect them to do it I suppose...

[Martin A]

Hi All

RobM77 said:

I'm having a recurring problem when overtaking, and I wondered if anyone had any ideas of how to avoid it. Due to the roads I drive on I probably overtake on average 2 or 3 times a week and follow the exact procedure I was taught and have read (which normally works superbly). This problem has occured twice recently though...

What happens is when I pull out to have a look prior to accelerating past, the vehicle that was behind me accelerates hard into the gap I've left, thus preventing me from tucking back in should I decide to abort. This may happen more frequently than I notice, but obviously I mainly notice if I do decide to move back in again. Both times this has happened I've aborted by accelerating forwards and creating a new gap for myself.
Both my cars are right hand drive, so I've tried to not move out completely, but this failed this morning as a van still managed to squeeze through the gap that I'd left!

This is quite a dangerous situation to be in, so does anyone have any ideas or thoughts?

Just a thought, a bit left field for PH. If you only overtake once every couple of days and maybe save yourself a minute or so each time just leave a minute earlier or arrive a minute later. Then you don't give others the opportunity to cause a problem.

The perception of time saved by overtaking can easily be overestimated.

Hope this helps

Best regards

Martin A

Hope this helps