loosing the rear end
Discussion
hi,sorry if this has been asked before but if i was driving a rear wheel drive car around a roundabout and lets if there is diesel spilt on the road and i loose the rear end, what would i do? steer into the direction the rear end is going? do nothing? floor it?
ive never driven a rear wheel drive car
thanks
ricky
ive never driven a rear wheel drive car
thanks
ricky
1.) Make absolutely sure that your eyes are looking up at where you want to go. Your hands will follow. This is the most important thing.
2.) The other thing would be to grip the wheel loosely - the natural tendency is to tighten one's grip, which will make your actions worse.
Both things are hard to do, especially if you've not practised them previously. If you are able to do them, however, you'll be okay.
2.) The other thing would be to grip the wheel loosely - the natural tendency is to tighten one's grip, which will make your actions worse.
Both things are hard to do, especially if you've not practised them previously. If you are able to do them, however, you'll be okay.
flemke said:
1.) Make absolutely sure that your eyes are looking up at where you want to go. Your hands will follow. This is the most important thing.
2.) The other thing would be to grip the wheel loosely - the natural tendency is to tighten one's grip, which will make your actions worse.
Both things are hard to do, especially if you've not practised them previously. If you are able to do them, however, you'll be okay.
I would add:2.) The other thing would be to grip the wheel loosely - the natural tendency is to tighten one's grip, which will make your actions worse.
Both things are hard to do, especially if you've not practised them previously. If you are able to do them, however, you'll be okay.
1)Go on a skid pan 1st.
Then you'll have felt what to do as well as know about it.2)Put the clutch pedal down. You want the wheels to do nothing but grip if you're sliding unintentionally on the road. A tyre can only work with a set ammount of energy, so you want that to be grip (turning) not acceleration of braking.
So for me it's look, steer in and clutch.
Edited by Munter on Wednesday 11th February 09:19
It all depends on how much room you have to play with.
Your natural reaction will be to steer into the slide.
(Ultimately, you will try to catch the slide and steer and accelerate gently out of it. IF YOU HAVE ROOM.)
If you have no room, as would be the case on a small tight roundabout, if you cannot hit the curbing, take your chance and allow the car to spin and hold it firmly on the brakes. (Then get the hell out of the way)
If you are going to hit the curb, steer as if to go up it with the front wheels. If you're really in the mire, steering up the curb will allow you a semblance of control, however much damage.
If you're sliding and going to hit the centre of the roundabout and carrying too much speed and going forward - it's going to be as much of a mess as your speed dictates. Just try to spin or stop.
In the present snowy stuff, find an empty car park and practice. Skid pans are the most neglected safty aid we have imho.
Your natural reaction will be to steer into the slide.
(Ultimately, you will try to catch the slide and steer and accelerate gently out of it. IF YOU HAVE ROOM.)
If you have no room, as would be the case on a small tight roundabout, if you cannot hit the curbing, take your chance and allow the car to spin and hold it firmly on the brakes. (Then get the hell out of the way)
If you are going to hit the curb, steer as if to go up it with the front wheels. If you're really in the mire, steering up the curb will allow you a semblance of control, however much damage.
If you're sliding and going to hit the centre of the roundabout and carrying too much speed and going forward - it's going to be as much of a mess as your speed dictates. Just try to spin or stop.
In the present snowy stuff, find an empty car park and practice. Skid pans are the most neglected safty aid we have imho.
ph123 said:
... then re-start heart !!
Thats what I had to do when I did it not too long ago in my Fiesta! And I needed a new pair ot trousers.Unfortunatly, the roundabout had no grip at all, and even with full opposite lock, it wouldn't turn back round again, luckily, wasn't going too fast and just slid into the curb at the end and stopped, no damage, and the road was empty, got a funny look from a lorry driver who went past though.
And before you all say I was going to fast, my dad went round the roundabout in the Outlander, and even that started sliding.
He took me out in the snow and let me practice controlling the car in a skid, very usefull. I would definatly like to go to a skid pan, or even an advanced driving course, just to expose me to it, so that hopefully if it were to ever happen, I might be able to do something about it.
And to the person above who said, floor it and yank the handbrake. How would that do anything, if its rear wheel drive, you'd just be wasting tyre and clutch, I doubt you'd start drifting,
thanks guys 
i did get myself into a mess a week ago, there was diesel on the road and i was driving a e36 bmw 323 coupe and went around a roundabout which had diesel spilt on it and i ended up facing the wrong direction. i guess i turned the steering the wrong way round cos i just did anything to slow down but at least i know what to do now
i did get myself into a mess a week ago, there was diesel on the road and i was driving a e36 bmw 323 coupe and went around a roundabout which had diesel spilt on it and i ended up facing the wrong direction. i guess i turned the steering the wrong way round cos i just did anything to slow down but at least i know what to do now
1) If the grip was taken away by a slippery surface then bear in mind at some point in the very near future you're going to get the grip back again! Be ready for this as the car will "bite" quite viciously.
2) Steering: You apply opposite lock. So on a right hand bend you lessen the right hand steering, maybe even start steering to the left. Unless you're in an absolute pig of a car, or you hit oil/diesel you would normally feel the balance of the car change before it actually goes sideways, so you'll simply need less lock, rather than opposite lock (for example, I've tested my new racing car three times so far and am on the pace, but I've only had opposite lock once.. that's pretty normal I would think; you normally just feel the balance change before you need opposite lock heroics). Just steer as much as you need to to get the car pointing the way you want it to go - this comes naturally to most people (just watch any karting session - even 6 year olds do this their first time out).
3) The throttle. This is where real life is different to karting or even skid pans (or Gran Turismo!). Power application in a rear drive car can exacerbate oversteer, but conversely so can coming off the throttle because it throws weight forward (i.e. the rear wheels go light and the fronts dig in). Weight transfer becomes more predominant at high speed, and power appliction less predominant (which is why you barely feel it on a skid pan - you're onyl doing 20mph..). Probably your best bet is to just freeze the throttle, unless it's really obvious that the throttle caused the slide (i.e. it was a pretty low speed slide in a powerful car).
Whoever gave the advice to spin the car above must be completely loopy!!! 99.99999% of the time oversteer in a rear drive car on the road is very brief, undramatic and easily caught. If you do by any chance spin, then hit the brake as hard as you can and wait for the car to stop.
2) Steering: You apply opposite lock. So on a right hand bend you lessen the right hand steering, maybe even start steering to the left. Unless you're in an absolute pig of a car, or you hit oil/diesel you would normally feel the balance of the car change before it actually goes sideways, so you'll simply need less lock, rather than opposite lock (for example, I've tested my new racing car three times so far and am on the pace, but I've only had opposite lock once.. that's pretty normal I would think; you normally just feel the balance change before you need opposite lock heroics). Just steer as much as you need to to get the car pointing the way you want it to go - this comes naturally to most people (just watch any karting session - even 6 year olds do this their first time out).
3) The throttle. This is where real life is different to karting or even skid pans (or Gran Turismo!). Power application in a rear drive car can exacerbate oversteer, but conversely so can coming off the throttle because it throws weight forward (i.e. the rear wheels go light and the fronts dig in). Weight transfer becomes more predominant at high speed, and power appliction less predominant (which is why you barely feel it on a skid pan - you're onyl doing 20mph..). Probably your best bet is to just freeze the throttle, unless it's really obvious that the throttle caused the slide (i.e. it was a pretty low speed slide in a powerful car).
Whoever gave the advice to spin the car above must be completely loopy!!! 99.99999% of the time oversteer in a rear drive car on the road is very brief, undramatic and easily caught. If you do by any chance spin, then hit the brake as hard as you can and wait for the car to stop.
I have no traction control on my car, and twin turbo's tend to provide sudden amounts of power to the rear wheels, unlike a normally aspirated car that will be progressive.
So throttle control is quite a work of art. Too much and the wheels spin and kick the rear out as the turbo's spool up, so 3/4 throttle can give nice acceleration, but as the boost builds you then get twice as much power at the same throttle position. So it's very much a feel and learn drive.
I'll fish tail the rear end on every drive, and often kick out slightly, but a little steering correction and lifting the throttle corrects it instantly.
So throttle control is quite a work of art. Too much and the wheels spin and kick the rear out as the turbo's spool up, so 3/4 throttle can give nice acceleration, but as the boost builds you then get twice as much power at the same throttle position. So it's very much a feel and learn drive.
I'll fish tail the rear end on every drive, and often kick out slightly, but a little steering correction and lifting the throttle corrects it instantly.
deeps said:
I have no traction control on my car, and twin turbo's tend to provide sudden amounts of power to the rear wheels, unlike a normally aspirated car that will be progressive.
So throttle control is quite a work of art. Too much and the wheels spin and kick the rear out as the turbo's spool up, so 3/4 throttle can give nice acceleration, but as the boost builds you then get twice as much power at the same throttle position. So it's very much a feel and learn drive.
I'll fish tail the rear end on every drive, and often kick out slightly, but a little steering correction and lifting the throttle corrects it instantly.
Perfect! I couldn't have explained it any better So throttle control is quite a work of art. Too much and the wheels spin and kick the rear out as the turbo's spool up, so 3/4 throttle can give nice acceleration, but as the boost builds you then get twice as much power at the same throttle position. So it's very much a feel and learn drive.
I'll fish tail the rear end on every drive, and often kick out slightly, but a little steering correction and lifting the throttle corrects it instantly.
I lost the rear end at the old hairpin once with an ex btcc driver as my passenger/instructor.
I got the outside rear wheel on the grass as I turned in.
I initially felt the tail move out and immediatley started applying opposite lock at medium speed.
I could feel this wasn't helping enough so took one hand off the wheel and using the other span the wheel to full lock as quickly as possible. I actually maintained some throttle.
I corrected without fishtailing and rejoined the track smoothly.
The pro driver beside me exclaimed that I had obviously done this sort of thing before as he said he wouldn't have been able to catch that slide. I explained I had kept a little throttle on as without the car moving forward the car would have lost its steering and just pendulumed around.
I got the outside rear wheel on the grass as I turned in.
I initially felt the tail move out and immediatley started applying opposite lock at medium speed.
I could feel this wasn't helping enough so took one hand off the wheel and using the other span the wheel to full lock as quickly as possible. I actually maintained some throttle.
I corrected without fishtailing and rejoined the track smoothly.
The pro driver beside me exclaimed that I had obviously done this sort of thing before as he said he wouldn't have been able to catch that slide. I explained I had kept a little throttle on as without the car moving forward the car would have lost its steering and just pendulumed around.
mark69sheer said:
I lost the rear end at the old hairpin once with an ex btcc driver as my passenger/instructor.
I got the outside rear wheel on the grass as I turned in.
I initially felt the tail move out and immediatley started applying opposite lock at medium speed.
I could feel this wasn't helping enough so took one hand off the wheel and using the other span the wheel to full lock as quickly as possible. I actually maintained some throttle.
I corrected without fishtailing and rejoined the track smoothly.
The pro driver beside me exclaimed that I had obviously done this sort of thing before as he said he wouldn't have been able to catch that slide. I explained I had kept a little throttle on as without the car moving forward the car would have lost its steering and just pendulumed around.
No disrespect to your driving, but you may find that the BTCC driver was more used to racing cars than road cars, and especially the notoriously twitchy BTCC cars (front drive cars need very odd setups to make them fast, and many BTCC drivers that have experience in other formulae note how hard they are to drive compared with more natural RWD layouts). I got the outside rear wheel on the grass as I turned in.
I initially felt the tail move out and immediatley started applying opposite lock at medium speed.
I could feel this wasn't helping enough so took one hand off the wheel and using the other span the wheel to full lock as quickly as possible. I actually maintained some throttle.
I corrected without fishtailing and rejoined the track smoothly.
The pro driver beside me exclaimed that I had obviously done this sort of thing before as he said he wouldn't have been able to catch that slide. I explained I had kept a little throttle on as without the car moving forward the car would have lost its steering and just pendulumed around.
I very much doubt there's anything any of us could teach a pro like that guy about car control. Basic car control such as you outline above is a pre-requisite for being a pro racing driver like being able to speak English is a pre-requisite for a top thespian actor, or being able to walk is for a 2hr marathon runner
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