Synchro Rev Control

[matt uk]

Posted this in GG, but here as well for those that don't often post there. Keen to discuss this one.



Just read about this in Evo.
The new nissan 370Z has this function. On a manual car it effectively blips the throttle for you on a downshift. And it get it's 100% right every single time. So effectively eradicates the need for hee-and-toe control.

Now, I accept the flappy-paddle gearboxes do this for you and I can see the practical benefits of the system so that inexperienced drivers don't upset the balance of the car whilst cornering.

But c'mon! This is a MANUAL transmission. It's all about the driver using their skill to manage the car and reap the rewards of learning and perfecting their craft. It's about practice makes perfect. You have to try. It's a skill you have to learn. I certainly don't get it 100% right every time so I'm delighted when I do get it right: my input efforts have been rewarded with satisfying outputs.

I love hearing a manual performance car blip-blipping it's way down the gears - I know the driver inside is working away to get the best from the car.

I think this is a bad thing.

Discuss.

[Martin A]

Hi All

From what I understand there is an off button.

On some Vintage cars it was necessary to adjust the ignition advance and pump petrol manually. Drum brakes also needed frequent adjustment, albeit when stationary. Very few drivers would enthuse about the necessity of having to do that now.

I've been wishing there was such a device for ages and if it was ever available as a universal aftermarket option I'd be near the front of the queue. In my opinion better than stability control and abs for making the driving experience more fun.

So that's a vote in favour

All the best

Martin A

[Hammerwerfer]

Whatever next?

Maybe an automatic clutch?

Paddles on the steering column?

An automatic mode?

[p1esk]

Oh FFS!! Why don't we just have cars where we can get in and sit in any seat, it won't matter which one, and press a few buttons to indicate where we want to go, and let the car do the rest!!

....but after I've gone (if that's what you want) please.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[flemke]

Martin A said:

On some Vintage cars it was necessary to adjust the ignition advance and pump petrol manually. Drum brakes also needed frequent adjustment, albeit when stationary. Very few drivers would enthuse about the necessity of having to do that now.

Those relate to maintenance and starting procedure. They don't relate to driving.

[Martin A]

Hi All

flemke said:

Martin A said:

On some Vintage cars it was necessary to adjust the ignition advance and pump petrol manually. Drum brakes also needed frequent adjustment, albeit when stationary. Very few drivers would enthuse about the necessity of having to do that now.

Those relate to maintenance and starting procedure. They don't relate to driving.

Fair point although it still requires the learning of a skill on the part of the driver. However who would want to dispense with synchromesh in a road car gearbox, which in simple terms matches the speeds of the driving and driven parts of the gearbox, this new device happens to do it for the driving and driven parts of the clutch. Naturally not having synchromesh saves weight on a racecar but if I understand correctly many Porsche Le Mans cars had it in order to reduce driver fatigue, which is a contributary cause in many accidents.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the satisfaction of a seamless manual gearchange when changing gear without synchromesh but I think I could consistently drive faster confidently and with more enjoyment with such a device fitted, which is not the case with many of the available invasive stability systems for me personally.

Still just a personal opinion but hopefully you can now understand my reasoning.

HTH

Best regards

Martin A

[Holst]

I wonder how it works.

How would it know if you were going to change down or up?

I can see the advantage of a flappy paddle type system, but this half way house seems a bit unnecicary.
If it works properly then I wouldnt object to driving a car with it fitted.

[robwales]

I have never driven a car that had any form of electronic driving aid.

I feel that they are beneficial and am ready to accept them if they activate in emergencies e.g. ABS, stability control.

But I'm not so keen on something that would interfere with the normal driving process, all the time.

[waremark]

I should very much like to try out this system, but I expect I would soon turn it off. One of the main pleasures of a manual transmission is trying to rev match accurately, including with the use of heel and toe.

There is also the point that I usually change down when I am ready to reapply gas so it makes sense to have my foot on the accelerator. I cannot imagine how this transmission would respond.

But you may well think my comments hypocritical since I drive an M3 with DCT.

[BOR]

This sounds like a really nice, simple application. For a lot of cars, this would simply require a few lines of code, the sensors already being present.

For 99% of the people, for 99% of the time, this will be a great idea, myself included. But rev-matching is one of the few challenges left, that you can unobtrusively enjoy, in comparison to say, sliding through a corner, so I would like to be able to switch it off.

[chevronb37]

From the positive prose in evo, I would quite like to try this out - it seems pretty fool-proof. I enjoy (nay, relish) the challenge of rev matching, but sometimes it'd be great to have a bit of help when you've had a long day at work and just want to get home. I'd want the opportunity to switch it off for a really enthusiastic drive though.

[GreenV8S]

It does seem archaic that with the level of technology we have available now, people are still left trying to control revs and clutch via such crude unassisted controls. I'm sure a lot of mechanical abuse could be prevented by automating these controls, which would enable the mechanical parts to be made cheaper and last longer.

[trackcar]

flemke said:

Martin A said:

On some Vintage cars it was necessary to adjust the ignition advance and pump petrol manually. Drum brakes also needed frequent adjustment, albeit when stationary. Very few drivers would enthuse about the necessity of having to do that now.

Those relate to maintenance and starting procedure. They don't relate to driving.

on the contrary, there are old cars where you have to work the fuel pump manually, and alter the advance/retard whilst you are driving. Agree though that I don't think a return to those times would be considered a good thing ..

[waremark]

GreenV8S said:

It does seem archaic that with the level of technology we have available now, people are still left trying to control revs and clutch via such crude unassisted controls. I'm sure a lot of mechanical abuse could be prevented by automating these controls, which would enable the mechanical parts to be made cheaper and last longer.

So DSG/DCT/PDK style gearboxes make sense. The problem with them is that they deprive you of the challenge and satisfaction of using a three pedal system well. The Nissan system is addressing a minute gap in driver preferences between the satisfaction of a conventional manual and the logical efficiency of a DSG. And then there is the specific question of when does this system help. Since Advanced Drivers rarely change down on the overrun but only when they want to pick up the drive they cannot avoid having to get the accelerator to a suitable position even with this system.