Indicating/flashing to allow others out
Discussion
One of the things I was taught when I did my Skill For Life was to not gesture/flash/indicate etc to other drivers suggesting they can pull out etc. The reasoning made perfect sense, that you don't want to be responsible for causing a crash by indicating they can go when possibly they can't because you've missed something else that is occurring.
Having been about a year now since I did the advanced test I still find it one area that can cause confusion with other drivers, especially when combined with an effort to anticipate & control your speed so you don't need to stop/start unnecessarily. For example you're crawling through stop/start traffic or ease off to allow someone into a queue of traffic and unless you flash them, it inevitably ends up with other drivers doing "can I go or not" routine with going to pull away then stopping etc, or waiting to the last second when you either have to stop to let them out or accelerate again hoping they don't decide to pull out after all. People in general either look for a flash of the lights or hand gesture (even if you've made eye contact) before they're willing to pull out in front of a slow moving car. Its either that or they expect you to come to a complete halt before they'll move.
The number of people that can read your intentions to maintain a slow pace so they can pull out if they want to seems very minimal.
Another example but on dual-carriageways - you're in lane 2 approaching two vehicles in lane 1 and you can see the rear one is gaining and will want to pull out. You ease off, timing it so you catch them at a time & speed that allows the other car to pull out, or you accelerate past them before they need to pull out. Its almost guarenteed that you accelerate past and they'll pull out just after you've started accelerating, but if you decelerate they'll lurk in lane 1 almost to the last second when they can pull before swinging out on you. The latter case can usually be resolved by a simple flash to let them know they can go before you.
Generally find there's an ever decreasing number of drivers that are willing to anticipate & act decisively, instead they're looking for someone else to tell/indicate to them what they should do.
Having been about a year now since I did the advanced test I still find it one area that can cause confusion with other drivers, especially when combined with an effort to anticipate & control your speed so you don't need to stop/start unnecessarily. For example you're crawling through stop/start traffic or ease off to allow someone into a queue of traffic and unless you flash them, it inevitably ends up with other drivers doing "can I go or not" routine with going to pull away then stopping etc, or waiting to the last second when you either have to stop to let them out or accelerate again hoping they don't decide to pull out after all. People in general either look for a flash of the lights or hand gesture (even if you've made eye contact) before they're willing to pull out in front of a slow moving car. Its either that or they expect you to come to a complete halt before they'll move.
The number of people that can read your intentions to maintain a slow pace so they can pull out if they want to seems very minimal.
Another example but on dual-carriageways - you're in lane 2 approaching two vehicles in lane 1 and you can see the rear one is gaining and will want to pull out. You ease off, timing it so you catch them at a time & speed that allows the other car to pull out, or you accelerate past them before they need to pull out. Its almost guarenteed that you accelerate past and they'll pull out just after you've started accelerating, but if you decelerate they'll lurk in lane 1 almost to the last second when they can pull before swinging out on you. The latter case can usually be resolved by a simple flash to let them know they can go before you.
Generally find there's an ever decreasing number of drivers that are willing to anticipate & act decisively, instead they're looking for someone else to tell/indicate to them what they should do.
I generally only flash to give way to people if I can see there are no other people around who could misconstrude my flashing (ooer) and think I'm giving way to them, or whatever, causing some sort of accident. If there's some poor bugger waiting to turn right into a side road (across my path) and I look in my mirrors and see a huge stream of traffic behind me, and I can slow down smoothly, I'll take pity, for example.
If it's a busy road/junction/whatever and there's cars stopped all over the place, they can wait.
If it's a busy road/junction/whatever and there's cars stopped all over the place, they can wait.
Edited by Howard- on Friday 9th January 12:02
The whole flashing thingy is a bag of worms best left alone IMO.
It can either announce, `yes take my place` or `back off this spot is mine`.
Unless I have eye contact so the message cannot be misunderstood I allow other people to make their own judgement regarding positional opportunity.
It can either announce, `yes take my place` or `back off this spot is mine`.
Unless I have eye contact so the message cannot be misunderstood I allow other people to make their own judgement regarding positional opportunity.
TBH flashing is one thing I have really clamped down on in my own driving since my AD course.
I still flash other drivers, but never with a multiple quick flash like many do. I give one, sustained (probably not the prescribed 3 seconds because that seems OTT) flash with the sole intention of highlighting my position to other drivers.
If they choose to move into the gap I have higlighted, fantastic. If they decide that I am actually closer than they thought, and decide NOT to make that manouevre, better still.
It may not be the textbook way of doing things, but it makes situations as described by the OP much smoother...
I still flash other drivers, but never with a multiple quick flash like many do. I give one, sustained (probably not the prescribed 3 seconds because that seems OTT) flash with the sole intention of highlighting my position to other drivers.
If they choose to move into the gap I have higlighted, fantastic. If they decide that I am actually closer than they thought, and decide NOT to make that manouevre, better still.
It may not be the textbook way of doing things, but it makes situations as described by the OP much smoother...
cj_eds said:
The reasoning made perfect sense, that you don't want to be responsible for causing a crash by indicating they can go when possibly they can't because you've missed something else that is occurring.
Surely it is the responsibility of the person you are flashing (no pun) to check the coast is clear before proceeding?Edited by bkay88 on Friday 9th January 15:25
parapaul said:
I still flash other drivers, but never with a multiple quick flash like many do. I give one, sustained (probably not the prescribed 3 seconds because that seems OTT) flash with the sole intention of highlighting my position to other drivers.
I don't think that is a super-sound strategy. You know you mean "I am here", 99% of other drivers will go the route of thinking you mean them to go.It's one of the areas of driving code that really needs attending to by the powers that be to improve it.
Bert
BertBert said:
vonhosen said:
Headlamp flashes are to warn others of your presence.
No they are not. It says they are in the HWC, Advanced Drivers claim they are, but clearly that is NOT how they are used by the vast majority of flashers! That might be wrong, but it's time to get it sorted.Bert
What do the Police have to warn people of their presence ?
Yep flashing headlights, that are often more visible than (& reduce the effect of) flashing blues in the grill.
If you pull out on something & say well such & such flashed me it'll cut no ice. It does nothing to absolve you of your responsibility to ensure it is safe for you to pull out.
bkay88 said:
cj_eds said:
The reasoning made perfect sense, that you don't want to be responsible for causing a crash by indicating they can go when possibly they can't because you've missed something else that is occurring.
Surely it is the responsibility of the person you are flashing (no pun) to check the coast is clear before proceeding?Edited by bkay88 on Friday 9th January 15:25
lol @ von, have you considered visiting the real world?
Flashing in slow traffic at a car trying to join the road means "consider yourself lucky as I will let you out" and flashing on the motorway when 1 foot from the car in front means "get the f@ck out of my way you peasant".
Obvious.
Where is reg when you need him, he'd have done a lovely video of himself flashing the headlights to clarify things.
Flashing in slow traffic at a car trying to join the road means "consider yourself lucky as I will let you out" and flashing on the motorway when 1 foot from the car in front means "get the f@ck out of my way you peasant".
Obvious.
Where is reg when you need him, he'd have done a lovely video of himself flashing the headlights to clarify things.
If I were to flash someone for example to join my lane from a slip rod or junction, I would give 2-3 short flashes. If I am making my presence known it would be a long constant flash/main beam.
Don't know if that is 'correct' but in all honesty I don't generally flash people who are at a give way line, unless in slow traffic with a big queue behind me, and if no queue behind me I maintain my progress, but keeping a close eye on the other making sure they don't pull out on me.
Don't know if that is 'correct' but in all honesty I don't generally flash people who are at a give way line, unless in slow traffic with a big queue behind me, and if no queue behind me I maintain my progress, but keeping a close eye on the other making sure they don't pull out on me.
m12_nathan said:
lol @ von, have you considered visiting the real world?
Flashing in slow traffic at a car trying to join the road means "consider yourself lucky as I will let you out" and flashing on the motorway when 1 foot from the car in front means "get the f@ck out of my way you peasant".
Obvious.
Where is reg when you need him, he'd have done a lovely video of himself flashing the headlights to clarify things.
The real world is I've seen people take a flash to mean it's OK, only for them to then have a collision & be blamed for it.Flashing in slow traffic at a car trying to join the road means "consider yourself lucky as I will let you out" and flashing on the motorway when 1 foot from the car in front means "get the f@ck out of my way you peasant".
Obvious.
Where is reg when you need him, he'd have done a lovely video of himself flashing the headlights to clarify things.
It's always likely to be that way.
John MacK said:
If I were to flash someone for example to join my lane from a slip rod or junction, I would give 2-3 short flashes. If I am making my presence known it would be a long constant flash/main beam.
Don't know if that is 'correct' but in all honesty I don't generally flash people who are at a give way line, unless in slow traffic with a big queue behind me, and if no queue behind me I maintain my progress, but keeping a close eye on the other making sure they don't pull out on me.
It doesn't matter what you mean by it, it's what they take it to mean & where they get it wrong they'll be the ones carrying the can.Don't know if that is 'correct' but in all honesty I don't generally flash people who are at a give way line, unless in slow traffic with a big queue behind me, and if no queue behind me I maintain my progress, but keeping a close eye on the other making sure they don't pull out on me.
vonhosen said:
John MacK said:
If I were to flash someone for example to join my lane from a slip rod or junction, I would give 2-3 short flashes. If I am making my presence known it would be a long constant flash/main beam.
Don't know if that is 'correct' but in all honesty I don't generally flash people who are at a give way line, unless in slow traffic with a big queue behind me, and if no queue behind me I maintain my progress, but keeping a close eye on the other making sure they don't pull out on me.
It doesn't matter what you mean by it, it's what they take it to mean & where they get it wrong they'll be the ones carrying the can.Don't know if that is 'correct' but in all honesty I don't generally flash people who are at a give way line, unless in slow traffic with a big queue behind me, and if no queue behind me I maintain my progress, but keeping a close eye on the other making sure they don't pull out on me.
But the more I drive the more I think it is unnecisary except in busy queuing traffic.
The other similar irk is when the car in front slows and flashes out a driver at a give-way when there is no cars following me.
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