IAM & "Intelligent" Speed Adaptation
Discussion
I read about the IAM's support of electronic speed limiters on the discussion about the increased membership rates - and thought it worthy of a thread of its own.
I have been an IAM member for some 16 years and have followed advice regarding advanced driving. I am extremely concerned that the Institute is in a small but significant way advocating electronic speed limiting devices and hence taking decision making away from the driver. This is far more far reaching than driver aids (such as ABS) as it could lull a driver into a false sense of security that 70mph on a motorway or 30 mph in a built up area is safe - regardless of climatic, road, traffic conditions etc.
I have made my thoughts known via the IAM website - where there is a facility to make your views known to the "powers that be". see http://www.iam.org.uk/pressroom/newsarchive/Lethal... If you feel strongly on this matter, drop the IAM a line.
I will be reviewing my membership come renewal and between now and then will keep a watch on further announcements - this could be the thin end of the wedge!
I have been an IAM member for some 16 years and have followed advice regarding advanced driving. I am extremely concerned that the Institute is in a small but significant way advocating electronic speed limiting devices and hence taking decision making away from the driver. This is far more far reaching than driver aids (such as ABS) as it could lull a driver into a false sense of security that 70mph on a motorway or 30 mph in a built up area is safe - regardless of climatic, road, traffic conditions etc.
I have made my thoughts known via the IAM website - where there is a facility to make your views known to the "powers that be". see http://www.iam.org.uk/pressroom/newsarchive/Lethal... If you feel strongly on this matter, drop the IAM a line.
I will be reviewing my membership come renewal and between now and then will keep a watch on further announcements - this could be the thin end of the wedge!
So your telling me I can put my foot to the floor and drive "flat out" as determined by this ISA box and never break the speed limit .. Jesus,
Do you think driving will be a skill much longer even less attention given to it.
I am a member the only reason is I save more in insurance than membership costs - but I may have to review this...
Do you think driving will be a skill much longer even less attention given to it.
I am a member the only reason is I save more in insurance than membership costs - but I may have to review this...
My understanding of the IAM is that it is a Road Safety organisation that puts driver skills to the forefront. As such I would expect it to put forward the case opposing ISA not supporting it (albeit with a few half-hearted caveats).
"Mr Greig said that drivers may adopt ISA devices if they promised that speeding fines, penalty points and loss of licence became things of the past". As the IAM's Director of Research & Policy I'm surprised that Mr Greig is not aware that speeding is not the sole cause of driving offences/points/loss of licence/crashes etc. But the perception many will read into his comments is just that, and will drive accordingly (foot down/mind in neutral)
The IAM claims to represent the interests of a large group of people to influence policy on their behalf. As the organisation clearly does not represent the views of many of its members then I suspect (along with the recent subscription increase) that a significant drop in income can be expected for the IAM in 2009.
"Mr Greig said that drivers may adopt ISA devices if they promised that speeding fines, penalty points and loss of licence became things of the past". As the IAM's Director of Research & Policy I'm surprised that Mr Greig is not aware that speeding is not the sole cause of driving offences/points/loss of licence/crashes etc. But the perception many will read into his comments is just that, and will drive accordingly (foot down/mind in neutral)
The IAM claims to represent the interests of a large group of people to influence policy on their behalf. As the organisation clearly does not represent the views of many of its members then I suspect (along with the recent subscription increase) that a significant drop in income can be expected for the IAM in 2009.
Edited by 7mike on Sunday 4th January 08:37
CommanderJameson said:
If Grieg's statements become official IAM policy, I shall have to switch from procrastinating about joining the IAM, to procrastinating about doing my RoSPA instead.
As Director of Research & Policy for the IAM I think it's safe to assume he speaks on behalf of that organisation. So it looks like RoSPA for you (although I haven't looked at their views on this yet).http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/motorvehicl...
A bunch of academics have said it's a good thing so guess it must be, after all they are never wrong and are always in agreement with each other.
A bunch of academics have said it's a good thing so guess it must be, after all they are never wrong and are always in agreement with each other.
The problem for me is the technology needs to be very very good to even do what they want.
I would guess anybody with a satnav has occasionally seen it thinks they are on the residential road beside the motorway and vice versa....
So foot to the floor in a 30 suddenly the "car" thinks it's on the motorway, and off it go's. Or worse. Doing 70 down the motorway, suddenly the car slows down to 30. Lots of people crash and theres nothing the driver could do....
Sounds great to me.....
I would guess anybody with a satnav has occasionally seen it thinks they are on the residential road beside the motorway and vice versa....
So foot to the floor in a 30 suddenly the "car" thinks it's on the motorway, and off it go's. Or worse. Doing 70 down the motorway, suddenly the car slows down to 30. Lots of people crash and theres nothing the driver could do....
Sounds great to me.....
Munter said:
The problem for me is the technology needs to be very very good to even do what they want.
Even if it does prove to be exceptionally good, do we want it? I say no.Should we always accept and apply whatever new technology becomes available? Again, I say no. We ought to be selective about whether or not we adopt it.
Some of it is clearly of immense benefit to us, which is splendid; such as progress in medical treatments etc., but too much of it is getting misused IMHO.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I can think of situations where ISA would increase danger, for instance on an NSL single carriageway where the driver being overtaken accelerates.
Also I feel that strict governing of vehicles to 70 on the motorway would cause painfully slow overtakes and closely spaced clumping of traffic - as we see with governed trucks.
I see some value of of an optional device to warn of exceeding the limit. Maybe even some merit to applying a limiter in towns - though have little problem myself adhering to the sensible majority of urban limits, and have cruise control for the silly ones!
Also I feel that strict governing of vehicles to 70 on the motorway would cause painfully slow overtakes and closely spaced clumping of traffic - as we see with governed trucks.
I see some value of of an optional device to warn of exceeding the limit. Maybe even some merit to applying a limiter in towns - though have little problem myself adhering to the sensible majority of urban limits, and have cruise control for the silly ones!
Just playing devils advocate here but.... Anyone agree with my thinking that if they can control your speed via Satellite... Could this be the way they are going to sneek in the ''Pay as you go'' Road Charging Via the same system already installed to control your speed?
Now seeing the government ''Safe Speed'' drive using the satellites for what it really is... A way to get the Road Charging plans in.
Now seeing the government ''Safe Speed'' drive using the satellites for what it really is... A way to get the Road Charging plans in.
R3v 1 said:
Just playing devils advocate here but.... Anyone agree with my thinking that if they can control your speed via Satellite... Could this be the way they are going to sneek in the ''Pay as you go'' Road Charging Via the same system already installed to control your speed?
Now seeing the government ''Safe Speed'' drive using the satellites for what it really is... A way to get the Road Charging plans in.
Yes. This government wants to track you and control you at all times.Now seeing the government ''Safe Speed'' drive using the satellites for what it really is... A way to get the Road Charging plans in.
The IAM is in my opinion being foolish in aligning themselves with this.
No doubt in my mind that IAM leadership is loosing (has lost touch) with grass route membership.
When I joined (30 years ago) but I'm not an old fart, honest, they had a motto which was 'skill with responsibility'. That has gone now.
If they choose to support ISA then that fits with the removal of the motto .... if you hand over the driving to big brother you don't need skill with responsibility.
The leadership are out of touch and lack direction.
When I joined (30 years ago) but I'm not an old fart, honest, they had a motto which was 'skill with responsibility'. That has gone now.
If they choose to support ISA then that fits with the removal of the motto .... if you hand over the driving to big brother you don't need skill with responsibility.
The leadership are out of touch and lack direction.
waremark said:
I seem to have lost my access to the IAM forum at the moment. Can anyone summarize what is being said on there?
General outrage from some – membership non-renewal threatDumbing down driving
ISA against IAM “skill with responsibility” ethos
No “Big Brother” (Government control, not the crap TV show)
Question government IT project delivery re quality/cost/schedule
Why did HO release without membership approval?
One chap says release hyped up and IAM is cautious
Detour off onto GPS accuracy – old Chief Examiner wrote an article on how not to trust SatNav over speedo.
Stuff from George typically off the wall!
Vince Yearly’s response
One chap says we have nothing to fear as IAMers don't break speed limits (but he also supports “Speed Kills” sound bite)
I think that's about it.
Well, who's surprised at this, certainly not I. I can remember posting on a motoring forum somewhere, which, I now cannot recall, that the Government could declare that the maximum NSL was to be 50mph and that the IAM would support it. "In the interest of road safety".
Others might have alluded to the sense of how I consider organisations. That is, that they exhibit the behaviour of biological organisms, meaning survival in their environment is the major concern.
The IAM is not exempt from this.
Sad.
Others might have alluded to the sense of how I consider organisations. That is, that they exhibit the behaviour of biological organisms, meaning survival in their environment is the major concern.
The IAM is not exempt from this.
Sad.
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