Turbos and snow
Discussion
First decent snowfall here since I've owned a turbo car. And what a pain in the rear that is!
Heading up the hill out of our village, with several inches of snow on it (it was borderline but I thought I'd give it a go, since it's a quiet road with plenty of opportunities to abort). I was instantly struggling. I had to keep the revs high enough so that the thing didn't bog down, but as soon as they strayed into boost territory, I of course had massive wheelspin. There was a very small "rev window" in which I could have a semblance of grip and not bog down - much smaller than in a NA engine.
Amusingly, as I was floundering up the hill, with electronic aids beeping and braking and fiddling with the engine, a woman in a boggo clio, with shopping engine and narrow tires caught me up and was clearly wondering what all the fuss was about.
Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
Heading up the hill out of our village, with several inches of snow on it (it was borderline but I thought I'd give it a go, since it's a quiet road with plenty of opportunities to abort). I was instantly struggling. I had to keep the revs high enough so that the thing didn't bog down, but as soon as they strayed into boost territory, I of course had massive wheelspin. There was a very small "rev window" in which I could have a semblance of grip and not bog down - much smaller than in a NA engine.
Amusingly, as I was floundering up the hill, with electronic aids beeping and braking and fiddling with the engine, a woman in a boggo clio, with shopping engine and narrow tires caught me up and was clearly wondering what all the fuss was about.
Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
What I can never work out, is why drivers on snow, don't slow earlier for road junctions/Tee junctions. The number of times my heart is stopped by having some jerk arrive at a junction for them ahead, with all his/her stakes based on front wheels which are locked on solid, looking at me as though I'm the intruder.
Was thinking about that this morning. When I go out on snow/ice, I always do a quick brake check at low speed to see how much grip there is, then drive accordingly.
I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
The Black Flash said:
Was thinking about that this morning. When I go out on snow/ice, I always do a quick brake check at low speed to see how much grip there is, then drive accordingly.
I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
Best wishes all,
Dave.
p1esk said:
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.
Do you think it might be the tyres? Wider, and with compounds optimised for maximum grip above about 8 degrees IIRC. Get on proper winter tyres and modern cars are very good.waremark said:
p1esk said:
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.
Do you think it might be the tyres? Wider, and with compounds optimised for maximum grip above about 8 degrees IIRC. Get on proper winter tyres and modern cars are very good.waremark said:
p1esk said:
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.
Do you think it might be the tyres? Wider, and with compounds optimised for maximum grip above about 8 degrees IIRC. Get on proper winter tyres and modern cars are very good.p1esk said:
The Black Flash said:
Was thinking about that this morning. When I go out on snow/ice, I always do a quick brake check at low speed to see how much grip there is, then drive accordingly.
I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
Best wishes all,
Dave.
The Black Flash said:
First decent snowfall here since I've owned a turbo car. And what a pain in the rear that is!
Heading up the hill out of our village, with several inches of snow on it (it was borderline but I thought I'd give it a go, since it's a quiet road with plenty of opportunities to abort). I was instantly struggling. I had to keep the revs high enough so that the thing didn't bog down, but as soon as they strayed into boost territory, I of course had massive wheelspin. There was a very small "rev window" in which I could have a semblance of grip and not bog down - much smaller than in a NA engine.
Amusingly, as I was floundering up the hill, with electronic aids beeping and braking and fiddling with the engine, a woman in a boggo clio, with shopping engine and narrow tires caught me up and was clearly wondering what all the fuss was about.
Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
Damn it, after dis-agreeing in General Gassing I'm agreeing with you here Heading up the hill out of our village, with several inches of snow on it (it was borderline but I thought I'd give it a go, since it's a quiet road with plenty of opportunities to abort). I was instantly struggling. I had to keep the revs high enough so that the thing didn't bog down, but as soon as they strayed into boost territory, I of course had massive wheelspin. There was a very small "rev window" in which I could have a semblance of grip and not bog down - much smaller than in a NA engine.
Amusingly, as I was floundering up the hill, with electronic aids beeping and braking and fiddling with the engine, a woman in a boggo clio, with shopping engine and narrow tires caught me up and was clearly wondering what all the fuss was about.
Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that a lot of us here think about what we are doing a lot more whereas Mrs Clio will be simply merrily driving along regardless of condition or what is on the road, this is all very well until she runs out of the luck that is keeping her on the road.
The Black Flash said:
First decent snowfall here since I've owned a turbo car. And what a pain in the rear that is!
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.
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Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
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Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
Its summer down here but having recently upgraded to a turbo car I guess I'll find out next winter. I expect it will help that mine is 4wd and has no electronic nannies to interfere, but 215/45ZR17" Eagle F1s aren't exactly snow tyres and the primary turbo hits boost below 2000rpm...I've just fitted some Vredestein Wintrac Xtremes to my Golf 2.0 TDI and can't wait to try them on snow. However living down in the south i fear i may miss out
They do seem much quieter on frosty mornings than my old tyres and i guess that is down to the compound staying more pliable in freezing conditions. Anyone else fitted winter tyres?
They do seem much quieter on frosty mornings than my old tyres and i guess that is down to the compound staying more pliable in freezing conditions. Anyone else fitted winter tyres?BertBert said:
waremark said:
Get on proper winter tyres and modern cars are very good.
What constitutes proper winter tyres? I want to fit some to the Galaxy before the family trip to Les Alpes Francais!Bert
Driving to Austria
On the second page that thread I posted a link to a picture of the side marking which shows the tyre has the severe winter traction rating.
What Winter Tyre?
GravelBen said:
waremark said:
p1esk said:
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.
Do you think it might be the tyres? Wider, and with compounds optimised for maximum grip above about 8 degrees IIRC. Get on proper winter tyres and modern cars are very good.Noticeable yesterday that one one section of dual carriageway people going down were having significantly more problems than people going up. It may have been a nervous drivers thing, but even so. It could have been a difference in snow / slush cover thing too, but one could just drive up, stop / start with no effort. People coming down were all over the place.
Maybe Dave has a point, though fitting proper winters definitely makes a huge difference.
900T-R said:
The Black Flash said:
Amusingly, as I was floundering up the hill, with electronic aids beeping and braking and fiddling with the engine, a woman in a boggo clio, with shopping engine and narrow tires caught me up and was clearly wondering what all the fuss was about.
There you go. 
But I do think an NA engine on the wider tyres would be less difficult to control than a turbo.
The Black Flash said:
First decent snowfall here since I've owned a turbo car. And what a pain in the rear that is!
Heading up the hill out of our village, with several inches of snow on it (it was borderline but I thought I'd give it a go, since it's a quiet road with plenty of opportunities to abort). I was instantly struggling. I had to keep the revs high enough so that the thing didn't bog down, but as soon as they strayed into boost territory, I of course had massive wheelspin. There was a very small "rev window" in which I could have a semblance of grip and not bog down - much smaller than in a NA engine.
Amusingly, as I was floundering up the hill, with electronic aids beeping and braking and fiddling with the engine, a woman in a boggo clio, with shopping engine and narrow tires caught me up and was clearly wondering what all the fuss was about.
Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
My Saab 9-3 aero (255-ish bhp) was an absolute bHeading up the hill out of our village, with several inches of snow on it (it was borderline but I thought I'd give it a go, since it's a quiet road with plenty of opportunities to abort). I was instantly struggling. I had to keep the revs high enough so that the thing didn't bog down, but as soon as they strayed into boost territory, I of course had massive wheelspin. There was a very small "rev window" in which I could have a semblance of grip and not bog down - much smaller than in a NA engine.
Amusingly, as I was floundering up the hill, with electronic aids beeping and braking and fiddling with the engine, a woman in a boggo clio, with shopping engine and narrow tires caught me up and was clearly wondering what all the fuss was about.
Doesn't seem to be much you can do to improve things as a driver, except to be extra, extra careful with the throttle.
h in the snow. I'm pretty experienced in snow driving and manage fine with my w211 e-class and even my old VX220T but the saab was a complete pain in the erse.waremark said:
p1esk said:
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.
Do you think it might be the tyres? Wider, and with compounds optimised for maximum grip above about 8 degrees IIRC. Get on proper winter tyres and modern cars are very good.....and being a poor OAP a special set of winter tyres is hard to justify.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
bramley said:
p1esk said:
The Black Flash said:
Was thinking about that this morning. When I go out on snow/ice, I always do a quick brake check at low speed to see how much grip there is, then drive accordingly.
I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
A bit of snow this morning again left me with the impression that braking is less effective now than it was in pre-ABS days.I think most people are fooled by the fact that you can steer reasonably normally on snow, but braking is virtually non-existant. So they're happilly bummbling along pretty much as normal until they have to slow down...
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
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