So I'm driving along..

[raf_gti]

<hypothetically>

..and it is a crappy night, I've had a long day at work and I just want to get home when going round a corner at a sensible speed the front end loses traction and I'm not in control anymore, heading towards the nearest field and the repair shop.

What do I do?

I realise this a very (very very) general question but when something similar to this happens what is the very basic you can do to avoid the field and stay on the road, no matter how 'untidy' the recovery action may appear.

Naturally it goes without saying an accident would be avoided in the first instance by employing advanced driving techniques

[gazza_3]

raf_gti said:

<hypothetically>

..and it is a crappy night, I've had a long day at work and I just want to get home when going round a corner at a sensible speed the front end loses traction and I'm not in control anymore, heading towards the nearest field and the repair shop.

What do I do?

I realise this a very (very very) general question but when something similar to this happens what is the very basic you can do to avoid the field and stay on the road, no matter how 'untidy' the recovery action may appear.

Naturally it goes without saying an accident would be avoided in the first instance by employing advanced driving techniques

Lift off the gas and try and get weight on the front wheels or it might bring the ass out and slide it round the bend? Or what about if it really goes tits up, apply the handbrake and spin the car?

[GravelBen]

Depends what the car is...

[Martin A]

What he ^ said.

Very very generally if you don't know what sort of car it is , both feet out. Depress the clutch and brake, quickly. Unlikely to make things worse than doing nothing.

Hope it's not too late for this to help.

Regards

Martin A

[Don]

If the front end washes wide it's usually best to get off the power and hit the brakes. When the tyres do "catch" again you'll start to lose speed. Let the ABS manage the grip and steer away from the hedge. If the car starts to oversteer get off the brakes but with ABS working that shouldn't happen.

No ABS? Now you have problems. Turn the steering wheel into the direction of the skid so that you aren't trying to turn the car as well as brake hard. Brake hard. Then release the brakes and steer away from the hedge. If necessary repeat: BRAKE, off brakes, Steer, BRAKE, off brakes, Steer etc. It's called cadence braking and if you can manage to do it in an emergency when you are stting yourself then you are a better man than I frankly. I've done it on the Skid Pan successfully but that's very different to managing it at 60mph in the dark, wet and nasty...

[RobM77]

What everyone else says, but also:

1) Take a good look at your car! It may have a mechanical problem.

2) Try and look up ahead for mud and gravel on the road.

My thoughts are that there must have been something very unusual for you to lose front end grip like that all of a sudden. I don't think I've ever had it happen.

[p1esk]

Don said:

If the front end washes wide it's usually best to get off the power and hit the brakes. When the tyres do "catch" again you'll start to lose speed. Let the ABS manage the grip and steer away from the hedge. If the car starts to oversteer get off the brakes but with ABS working that shouldn't happen.

No ABS? Now you have problems. Turn the steering wheel into the direction of the skid so that you aren't trying to turn the car as well as brake hard. Brake hard. Then release the brakes and steer away from the hedge. If necessary repeat: BRAKE, off brakes, Steer, BRAKE, off brakes, Steer etc. It's called cadence braking and if you can manage to do it in an emergency when you are stting yourself then you are a better man than I frankly. I've done it on the Skid Pan successfully but that's very different to managing it at 60mph in the dark, wet and nasty...

....especially when it's unexpected, and not part of a deliberate exploration of the technique.

If you are to deal with this sort of situation successfully it surely needs to be done instinctively. There isn't time to think about what the correct action might be, and then do it effectively - or at least that's how I imagine it works.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Strangely Brown]

raf_gti said:

<hypothetically>

..and it is a crappy night, I've had a long day at work and I just want to get home when going round a corner at a sensible speed the front end loses traction and I'm not in control anymore, heading towards the nearest field and the repair shop.

What do I do?

I realise this a very (very very) general question but when something similar to this happens what is the very basic you can do to avoid the field and stay on the road, no matter how 'untidy' the recovery action may appear.

Naturally it goes without saying an accident would be avoided in the first instance by employing advanced driving techniques

It seems like the most unnatural thing in the world to do but...

Come off the power, straighten the steering to give the tyres a chance to regain traction and then re-apply the steering. Keep doing it until the front end comes round.

Do NOT, apply the brakes, or add more lock whilst the front wheels are already sliding.

Get yourself onto a skid pan and play. You'll be surprised how much you'll learn in a very short time. There is no substitute for actually feeling it and doing it.

ETA: Reading that back it hasn't really expressed what I meant to say but read in conjunction with Don's post it does.

Edited by Strangely Brown on Monday 24th November 10:56

[Don]

RobM77 said:

My thoughts are that there must have been something very unusual for you to lose front end grip like that all of a sudden. I don't think I've ever had it happen.

I have. Coming off a roundabout, steering wheel turned to the left. Road gets a new 50mph limit so I am moderately hard on the power to get up to 50. Probably about 35mph when I (genuinely - I know it's the excuse of numpties everywhere) hit a fuel spill.

Car washed out wide and I followed my own advice above. It took half the opposite carriagway to regain control and I was lucky, luckier, luckiest that there was nothing coming the other way.

My mistake was not to have noticed the "cement" dust stuff that had been put down to soak it up. Easily avoidable.

[Don]

The golden rule of skids - is to remove the cause of whatever started it in the first place.

If it's the accelerator getting you into trouble - lift off (not with a bang - GENTLY - that can cause trouble in and of itself).

If it's the brakes? Get off them...although with modern ABS systems it's unlikely to be these.

If it's steering? Straighten up.

And finally. Buy a car with Electronic Stability Control. Modern systems are absolutely amazing.

[RobM77]

Don said:

RobM77 said:

My thoughts are that there must have been something very unusual for you to lose front end grip like that all of a sudden. I don't think I've ever had it happen.

I have. Coming off a roundabout, steering wheel turned to the left. Road gets a new 50mph limit so I am moderately hard on the power to get up to 50. Probably about 35mph when I (genuinely - I know it's the excuse of numpties everywhere) hit a fuel spill.

Car washed out wide and I followed my own advice above. It took half the opposite carriagway to regain control and I was lucky, luckier, luckiest that there was nothing coming the other way.

My mistake was not to have noticed the "cement" dust stuff that had been put down to soak it up. Easily avoidable.

I guess I must have been lucky! I don't recall ever having unexpected oversteer or understeer.

[Don]

RobM77 said:

I guess I must have been lucky! I don't recall ever having unexpected oversteer or understeer.

No. I went for twenty years or more in between. If you drive with even a moderate degree of caution a skid is a very, very unusual ocurrence.

[Strangely Brown]

RobM77 said:

I guess I must have been lucky! I don't recall ever having unexpected oversteer or understeer.

Only ever had it once, for real, on the road. It was wet and I was entering a roundabout. As I turned left the steering "just went" completely light and the car carried on in a straight line. It was a combination of pure luck and "sawing at the wheel like a bd" that saved me from going straight up the central island - Thanks, guys at Skid Control at Goodwood. Anyway the tyres cleared the slippy bit, bit and the car turned left before I got hit - Thanks, bloke in the car that saw what was happening and slowed sufficiently.

Nasty stuff. Very casual about it and easily controllable on the skid pan. Very different and very scary when it's unexpected on the road.

[RobM77]

Thanks. I did mean that sincerely. I'm 31 and have been driving since I was 17, probably around 13,000 miles a year on average, and almost all in sporty or quickish cars (see my profile). I'm pretty comfortable at the limit (I've been racing since I was 22/23 years old and karting since I was 18), but even so and despite some very "spirited" (but safe) driving in all weathers when the situation allows, I've never had unwanted oversteer or understeer on the road. As you correctly say, it requires something like a diesel or oil spill, which are incredibly rare (I've never crossed such a thing as far as I know). Of course, I've had loads of unexpected slides on track but dealing with them is normally instinctive, especially once you've learnt how your particular car reacts.

[Don]

Strangely Brown said:

Thanks, guys at Skid Control at Goodwood.

Ah yes. Been there, done that. My IAM group does group sessions there as well. Good fun and instructive.

Strangely Brown said:

Nasty stuff. Very casual about it and easily controllable on the skid pan. Very different and very scary when it's unexpected on the road.

Sliding at 12mph on a super-slippy surface with no chance of being hurt is utterly different to sliding at 100mph, on bone-dry tarmac, absolutely crapping yourself. The speed of reaction required to fix things - well - the two are virtually unrelated.

Skid pans teach the principles. Very well. But it's only that. If you want to learn how to recover stuff at speed you need an airfield to yourself and one of the pro-instructors like Don Palmer IMO.

[RobM77]

Don said:

Strangely Brown said:

Nasty stuff. Very casual about it and easily controllable on the skid pan. Very different and very scary when it's unexpected on the road.

Sliding at 12mph on a super-slippy surface with no chance of being hurt is utterly different to sliding at 100mph, on bone-dry tarmac, absolutely crapping yourself. The speed of reaction required to fix things - well - the two are virtually unrelated.

Skid pans teach the principles. Very well. But it's only that. If you want to learn how to recover stuff at speed you need an airfield to yourself and one of the pro-instructors like Don Palmer IMO.

Not to mention the fact that the Physics works differently at high speed. The ratio of the effects that power/brakes have to weight transfer changes as the speed increases (power/brakes have less effect and weight transfer has more). Ergo, in a rear drive car on a skid pan at 20mph backing off during oversteer brings the tail back into line immediately, whereas at 70mph you'll spin - handy that! Skid pans are helpful for learning how to deal with low speed slides as well as general steering technique and increasing confidence over the limit, but they won't teach high speed skid control.

[waremark]

Strangely Brown said:

It seems like the most unnatural thing in the world to do but...

Come off the power, straighten the steering to give the tyres a chance to regain traction and then re-apply the steering. Keep doing it until the front end comes round.

But don't follow this advice if your car has ESC. If your car has ESC and you are understeering, steer more in the direction you want to go. If it is physically possible the ESC will rescue you by applying or pulsing the brakes on the inside wheels.

It is vital to think about what systems are fitted to the car you are driving long before you get near an emergency.

[Strangely Brown]

waremark said:

Strangely Brown said:

It seems like the most unnatural thing in the world to do but...

Come off the power, straighten the steering to give the tyres a chance to regain traction and then re-apply the steering. Keep doing it until the front end comes round.

But don't follow this advice if your car has ESC. If your car has ESC and you are understeering, steer more in the direction you want to go. If it is physically possible the ESC will rescue you by applying or pulsing the brakes on the inside wheels.

It is vital to think about what systems are fitted to the car you are driving long before you get near an emergency.

My comments should probably have contained the qualifier that they were for drivers in unassisted cars. The world of electrickery and numpty aids has created a whole new ball game to get those with no interest out of trouble. As Norm says: "Be sure to read, understand and comply with all of the instructions that come with your power tools." i.e. Always know what "safety" features are fitted to whatever you're driving and how you should drive with each one.

[PeteG]

I've understeered once on road - completely my own fault, driving my old corsa round a small wet roundabout, too much throttle in 2nd, heading straight for a lamppost. Luckily speeds were such that I could come off the power, straighten the steering, then turn back onto the correct course, all with feet to spare. And an expression not dissimilar to ... never did it again.

[gazza_3]

I locked up on some oil and a left hand bend, went straight on into over a kerb and ditch and into a field. Cause was Oil. One written off car and a more exprinced me.