changing up gear while cornering

[moanthebairns]

Following the use of throttle while cornering topic.

Is it wise to change up gear while cornering? Or should you anticipate the corner better and have a appropriate rev range to play with for the corner in question, so your are no where near red lining whilst cornering!

The reason I ask, is because Ive done this a few times and can feel the grip lessen whilst changing gear. This makes me think its a really bad idea.
Also, I think to myself. "I would never change down a gear whilst in a corner always before".
And the fact I have to take my hand the steering wheel to change.

This makes me think Im being stupid changing up gear whilst cornering whats peoples views.

p.s. sorry If this seems like a stupid question.

[p1esk]

moanthebairns said:

Following the use of throttle while cornering topic.

Is it wise to change up gear while cornering? Or should you anticipate the corner better and have a appropriate rev range to play with for the corner in question, so your are no where near red lining whilst cornering!

The reason I ask, is because Ive done this a few times and can feel the grip lessen whilst changing gear. This makes me think its a really bad idea.
Also, I think to myself. "I would never change down a gear whilst in a corner always before".
And the fact I have to take my hand the steering wheel to change.

This makes me think Im being stupid changing up gear whilst cornering whats peoples views.

p.s. sorry If this seems like a stupid question.

The theoretical ideal, of course, is not to change gear part way through a curve, but it depends on the circumstances.

The way you describe your partial loss of grip, it sounds as if it would be best to change your technique, because you do sound to be seriously unbalancing the car and increasing your risk of loss of control.

If I feel like making a gear change part way through a curve - and sometimes I do - I do it without any hesitation or concern, and there is no danger of instability worth talking about; but it's not 'correct' and is perhaps best avoided.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[1950trevorP]

A major criteria to be assessed pre-bend is Speed.

The speed that you will maintain from entry, through apex, to exit.

If you are at a constant speed, gearchanging does not arise.

I strongly recommend http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs04.htm

[StressedDave]

1950trevorP said:

A major criteria to be assessed pre-bend is Speed.

The speed that you will maintain from entry, through apex, to exit.

If you are at a constant speed, gearchanging does not arise.

I strongly recommend http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs04.htm

IMHO, that's a load of sphericals - speed is predicated by forward vision not by some need to maintain a constant speed around a corner. Personally I'd be disinclined to change gear through all but the shallowest of corners, simply because of a) the need to coordinate hands and feet and b) the change in stability of the car when you do it. Picking the appropriate gear to give you some headroom is one option, the other is not accelerating so hard that you need another gear is another.

[GreenV8S]

One important issue is driver workload. From that point of view there is a big difference between holding the steering on an established bend, and turning the wheel into / out of the bend. I would be reluctant to change gear while actively steering due to the extra workload this places on the driver.

Another issue is the disruption the gear change causes to the balance of the car. This would only be a problem if you were quite close to the limit of grip and changed gear very roughly. So if you aren't capable of changing gear smoothly, don't change gear when you are close to the limit of grip. You should aim not to change gear roughly or be close to the limit of grip anyway on public roads so if this is a concern you might want to have another look at your driving style.

Subject to those two issues I see no problems changing up or down the box while cornering.

[moanthebairns]

I should point out its only a slight feeling of reduced grip I feel whilst doing this. Not noticeable to a passenger/onlooker, but I can feel it (maybe Its all in my head )

[Don]

On road I find it is very seldom that I find the need to change up through a bend.

On track it happens a fair bit. An example is errrm the corner after Vale at Silverstone. Or maybe my approach to that corner is rubbish...

[GreenV8S]

Don said:

On track it happens a fair bit. An example is errrm the corner after Vale at Silverstone. Or maybe my approach to that corner is rubbish...

If that's the long fast right-hander after a tight left ("club"?) then me too. I've been lucky enough to spend a few days there in the Topcats race Tuscan (non-PAS steering) and I found once the tyres were warmed up the steering was so heavy mid bend that I was pulling the skin off my hand trying to hold the lock one-handed while I changed gear. Which was a shame because the close ratio box was calling for two changes through there. Not a problem in my own car, which wobbles all over the place on road tyres with nice light steering.

[Don]

GreenV8S said:

Don said:

On track it happens a fair bit. An example is errrm the corner after Vale at Silverstone. Or maybe my approach to that corner is rubbish...

If that's the long fast right-hander after a tight left ("club"?) then me too. I've been lucky enough to spend a few days there in the Topcats race Tuscan (non-PAS steering) and I found once the tyres were warmed up the steering was so heavy mid bend that I was pulling the skin off my hand trying to hold the lock one-handed while I changed gear. Which was a shame because the close ratio box was calling for two changes through there. Not a problem in my own car, which wobbles all over the place on road tyres with nice light steering.

That's the one. In the Box I (think I) should change up twice, actually change up once and it's sort of OK as it's road tyres and PAS...and if I'm properly on it things can get wobbly alright...but that's my cack-handedness rather than a problem with the car.

[Martin A]

moanthebairns said:

Following the use of throttle while cornering topic.

Is it wise to change up gear while cornering?.....

The reason I ask, is because Ive done this a few times and can feel the grip lessen whilst changing gear....

If the rate of acceleration is such that a gear change is necessary then there is almost no problem from a dynamics point of view. It is possible of course that you may be slightly closer to the situation where the car begins to slide if you change gear but this is most likely to happen with unsympathetic raising of the clutch rather than putting the clutch in in the first place.

Normally an apparent loss of grip is simply countered by applying a bit more steering unless you are close to what may commonly be called the limit. Which prompts the idea for a new thread.

If you want to stick to a rigid system maybe you shouldn't do it. If you think the system is limiting what you do, modify the system to suit.

HTH

Regards

Martin A

[robwales]

I try not to do it, as it unbalances the car.
However, most of the time it wouldn't be a problem anyway as I will not be close enough to the limit for it to make a difference.

[firstmk1]

I do it often, on roundabouts.

[p1esk]

StressedDave said:

1950trevorP said:

A major criteria to be assessed pre-bend is Speed.

The speed that you will maintain from entry, through apex, to exit.

If you are at a constant speed, gearchanging does not arise.

I strongly recommend http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs04.htm

IMHO, that's a load of sphericals - speed is predicated by forward vision not by some need to maintain a constant speed around a corner. Personally I'd be disinclined to change gear through all but the shallowest of corners, simply because of a) the need to coordinate hands and feet and b) the change in stability of the car when you do it. Picking the appropriate gear to give you some headroom is one option, the other is not accelerating so hard that you need another gear is another.

Now there's a bit I like.

Rather than talking in terms of "the right speed for the hazard, and then the right gear for the speed" I prefer to think in terms of "a suitable or appropriate speed, and then a suitable or appropriate gear."

....although having said that, I sometimes do them in the reverse order.

Best wishes all,
Dave.