Push and Pull, feels wrong
Discussion
Well, I've been trying to get myself out of bad habits I've started to notice (mainly too much crossing of hands and wax on wax off) so decided to try and get using push and pull. Whn I try it though, it just feels wrong, my hands automatically end up and the bottom of the steering wheel. Is this just what happens in this method, or is it me being a spanner? This is why it feels wrong, because I was always taught hands at 10 to 2.
I really feel I'm too sloppy sometimes with my steering, and get my hands in bad positions when I'm in town and theres a lot tight corners all packed together, what other methods are good to use? thanks
I really feel I'm too sloppy sometimes with my steering, and get my hands in bad positions when I'm in town and theres a lot tight corners all packed together, what other methods are good to use? thanks
CorsaScott said:
Well, I've been trying to get myself out of bad habits I've started to notice (mainly too much crossing of hands and wax on wax off) so decided to try and get using push and pull. Whn I try it though, it just feels wrong, my hands automatically end up and the bottom of the steering wheel. Is this just what happens in this method, or is it me being a spanner? This is why it feels wrong, because I was always taught hands at 10 to 2.
I really feel I'm too sloppy sometimes with my steering, and get my hands in bad positions when I'm in town and theres a lot tight corners all packed together, what other methods are good to use? thanks
Why are you trying it ?I really feel I'm too sloppy sometimes with my steering, and get my hands in bad positions when I'm in town and theres a lot tight corners all packed together, what other methods are good to use? thanks
What is your motivation & reasoning ?
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 15th August 11:53
Have a look at this video.
He's not mirroring very well, but it'll give you an idea. Apart from the initial pull, each hand should be in the same position, but on opposite sides of the wheel. Try practicing with a dinner plate in front of the telly.
He's not mirroring very well, but it'll give you an idea. Apart from the initial pull, each hand should be in the same position, but on opposite sides of the wheel. Try practicing with a dinner plate in front of the telly.
THIS shows relaxed "not thinking about it much" steering from a competent driver:-
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fTScu7jOJd0&feat...
Would you say that he was "trying to keep to 10 to 2"?
Ahh.. well.. seeing as after many lectures i now seem to be an expert on the subject:
During normal driving where large turns of the steering wheel (more than about half a turn) are not required, you should keep your hands in a fixed 10 to 2 position on the steering wheel and not slide them over.
However, when a large turn is required (e.g. pulling out at a junction etc), push-pull should be used. Basically start with your hands at 10 to 2 and have one hand gripping the wheel while the other slides over it as you 'pull' the gripping hand down. When you get near the bottom of the steering wheel, grip with the other hand and 'push' back to the 10 to 2 position. Repeat.
Your hands should always be at the same vertical position during push-pull. Try not to let go of the steering wheel with the non-gripping hand so that it just slides over. This should alow a quicker response if you need to alter your steering (e.g. back the other way).
During normal driving where large turns of the steering wheel (more than about half a turn) are not required, you should keep your hands in a fixed 10 to 2 position on the steering wheel and not slide them over.
However, when a large turn is required (e.g. pulling out at a junction etc), push-pull should be used. Basically start with your hands at 10 to 2 and have one hand gripping the wheel while the other slides over it as you 'pull' the gripping hand down. When you get near the bottom of the steering wheel, grip with the other hand and 'push' back to the 10 to 2 position. Repeat.
Your hands should always be at the same vertical position during push-pull. Try not to let go of the steering wheel with the non-gripping hand so that it just slides over. This should alow a quicker response if you need to alter your steering (e.g. back the other way).
CorsaScott said:
I really feel I'm too sloppy sometimes with my steering, and get my hands in bad positions when I'm in town and theres a lot tight corners all packed together, what other methods are good to use? thanks
Forward planning!As you approach a hazard, don't just think about your speed and gears, but do a bit of thinking about how you're going to handle the wheel.
I used to be the same - all sixes and sevens when presented with a complex hazard (there's an annoying double roundabout nearby, and I have to navigate it often) and ending up crossing my hands on the wheel and generally making a jerky mess of complex junctions. A driving instructor friend told me to start planning ahead a lot more than perhaps I had been. It works.
By thinking about the turns I'm going to have to make, planning a smooth series of movements of the wheel becomes a lot easier.
I was also told (and proved to myself) that starting with a pull, not a push, is smoother.
Bearing in mind that (as I understand it) one of the benefits claimed for pull-push is that it faciltates smoother steering. With this in mind, ignore what the hands are doing and try watching the movements of the steering wheel; the starting and stopping and changes in the speed of rotation. It doesn't look to me to be giving especially smooth results in all cases when compared with other methods of steering.
It might be superior if done really well, but if it isn't done well one might be better off using a different style, depending on what comes most naturally to a particular individual. It's just a thought; see what you think.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
It might be superior if done really well, but if it isn't done well one might be better off using a different style, depending on what comes most naturally to a particular individual. It's just a thought; see what you think.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
In anticipation of my IAM assessment drive I have been practicing the 'push - pull' technique. One thing I noticed is how much sharper you can turn using this technique.
It does feel weird getting back into the habit of using the push - pull technique but with a little practice you soon get back into the habit of doing it naturally.
As for the smoothness that is down to the driver, someone who uses the technique regularily will be smoother than someone who is just starting to use it.
It does feel weird getting back into the habit of using the push - pull technique but with a little practice you soon get back into the habit of doing it naturally.
As for the smoothness that is down to the driver, someone who uses the technique regularily will be smoother than someone who is just starting to use it.
sir_lurk_alot said:
In anticipation of my IAM assessment drive I have been practicing the 'push - pull' technique. One thing I noticed is how much sharper you can turn using this technique.
It does feel weird getting back into the habit of using the push - pull technique but with a little practice you soon get back into the habit of doing it naturally.
As for the smoothness that is down to the driver, someone who uses the technique regularly will be smoother than someone who is just starting to use it.
They won't be smoother unless they're also doing it very well. Doing something regularly doesn't guarantee that you'll do it particularly well. (I've been driving quite a long time, and....oh never mind. It does feel weird getting back into the habit of using the push - pull technique but with a little practice you soon get back into the habit of doing it naturally.
As for the smoothness that is down to the driver, someone who uses the technique regularly will be smoother than someone who is just starting to use it.
) Somebody who uses another steering method expertly might get an equally good result.Best wishes all,
Dave.
Vaux said:
Reaching past 12 o'clock?
You're right - he's reaching past 12 o'clock to start winding the lock off. This isn't part of the technique and will put your hands in the wrong position at the end.Who wants to be first to post a video to YouTube that actually shows it being done properly?
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
Vaux said:
Reaching past 12 o'clock?
You're right - he's reaching past 12 o'clock to start winding the lock off. This isn't part of the technique and will put your hands in the wrong position at the end.Who wants to be first to post a video to YouTube that actually shows it being done properly?
CommanderJameson said:
I was also told (and proved to myself) that starting with a pull, not a push, is smoother.
I've started trying to get back into PP steering (after reading an awful story about a person whose airbag deployed when their arm was on the 'wrong' side of the wheel) and find that starting with a pull keeps everything smooth, whereas starting with the push makes the whole movement awkard and much less smooth.Vaux said:
Although I will start with a pull past 12 o'clock. Not classic IAM but effective.
When I don't have to be strictly IAM I'll do this too, but usually only for 90 degree turns at slow speed.My car's steering means that starting with the right hand at 10 o'clock and pulling round to 5 o'clock is enough for a right turn into a side road with just one movement. Starting at 12 o'clock and pulling down can result in some awkward shuffling at the bottom of the wheel just when you need more control.
I've heard this referred to as 'pull-push with an extended first sweep'.
sir_lurk_alot said:
In anticipation of my IAM assessment drive I have been practicing the 'push - pull' technique. One thing I noticed is how much sharper you can turn using this technique.
I find that depends on the car myself. In a modern car with a small steering wheel and high-geared steering I find that holds for most turns, and as well as turning more sharply it gives more control. My car though has a huge steering wheel and very low-geared steering (despite being power-assisted), and it's not uncommon to need to make a complete turn of the wheel or even more for sharper turns. In such cases I find that the amount of arm-flapping required for push-pull makes the turn jerky, slow and uncontrolled in feeling. No doubt this can be mitigated with practice, but I can't help feeling that it has its roots in the mechanics of the movements required and that it is therefore preferable to use a different set of movements rather than use software to fudge around the areas where a given set/type of movements are deficient.Pigeon said:
sir_lurk_alot said:
In anticipation of my IAM assessment drive I have been practicing the 'push - pull' technique. One thing I noticed is how much sharper you can turn using this technique.
I find that depends on the car myself. In a modern car with a small steering wheel and high-geared steering I find that holds for most turns, and as well as turning more sharply it gives more control. My car though has a huge steering wheel and very low-geared steering (despite being power-assisted), and it's not uncommon to need to make a complete turn of the wheel or even more for sharper turns. In such cases I find that the amount of arm-flapping required for push-pull makes the turn jerky, slow and uncontrolled in feeling. No doubt this can be mitigated with practice, but I can't help feeling that it has its roots in the mechanics of the movements required and that it is therefore preferable to use a different set of movements rather than use software to fudge around the areas where a given set/type of movements are deficient.p1esk said:
sir_lurk_alot said:
In anticipation of my IAM assessment drive I have been practicing the 'push - pull' technique. One thing I noticed is how much sharper you can turn using this technique.
It does feel weird getting back into the habit of using the push - pull technique but with a little practice you soon get back into the habit of doing it naturally.
As for the smoothness that is down to the driver, someone who uses the technique regularly will be smoother than someone who is just starting to use it.
They won't be smoother unless they're also doing it very well. Doing something regularly doesn't guarantee that you'll do it particularly well. (I've been driving quite a long time, and....oh never mind. It does feel weird getting back into the habit of using the push - pull technique but with a little practice you soon get back into the habit of doing it naturally.
As for the smoothness that is down to the driver, someone who uses the technique regularly will be smoother than someone who is just starting to use it.
) Somebody who uses another steering method expertly might get an equally good result.Best wishes all,
Dave.
Say for example whilst you are half way round a corner with your arms crossed you see an obstacle, it is very hard to uncross you arms and negotiate the obstacle whilst your arms are crossed. Or, Say you are half way round a corner with your arms crossed and you hit a small animal that sets off your airbag, thats gonna hurt.
With the push - pull method your hands stay in a constant position, so yes some drivers may be able to corner as smoothly using other techniques but they may be putting themselves in a more vulnerable position by doing so.
Until recently I didnt use the push - pull technique (I either crossed my arms or just used one hand) but since becoming an IAM associate I have started thinking about my driving a lot more (and what would happen if I had an accident or needed to negotiate an obstacle whilst cornering) and seems to make sense using the push - pull technique. I guess its not for everyone but it does make a lot of sense to use it.
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