Is there a case for Minimum Speed limits

[Jules2477]

There has been a lot of talk about rural A & B roads being the most dangerous, now the safety campaigners have jumped on the band wagon pushing for lower speed limits and even carriageway segration to stop overtaking. Whilst inappropriate use of speed is an obvious danger, how fast a car can travel safely is governed by many more factors than a numerical value on a sign. I believe that a major contributor to a lot of the accidents on rural truck routes is slow drivers as they lead to frustration and risk taking by people who would otherwise be content to drive at or near an appropriate speed for the road. (Obviously I am talking about the 35 mph ers in a 60) If, as is almost certainly the case, we are to be faced with many more 50 or even 40's in effort to reduce accidents, should some of these roads also be subject of a minimum speed limit (conditions and other factors considered)of say 10 MPH less than the permitted speed ? - Should we be campaigning the government ? If they do go down the carriageway segregation route as well I can visualise some very peed off drivers forced to follow Mr Mimser for mile after mile on an other wise clear road without an overtaking option.

[vonhosen]

Nope.

Someone doing 30 in a 60 is less of a problem than someone doing 50 in a 60 where I wish to pass them.

[robwales]

No, some people aren't very good at driving and we shouldn't be forcing them to drive faster than they are comfortable with.

My proposals:

• Making people pull over if they are holding up traffic due to unreasonable slow driving.
• Making people leave a gap in front if they don't intend to overtake, so others can pass one car at a time.
• Adopting a national "I wish to pass, please" signal so faster drivers can indicate their wish to pass drivers who drive very slowly around corners but 60 on straights, so that the faster ones don't need to get to 70-80 to pass.
• Teaching people to drive faster, maybe a few months after their test. Many people don't know what "feeling" is in a car, and have a very bad ability to judge how quick corners can be taken safely.
• Teach people to overtake, maybe also at a higher level once they have some experience.

Of course, none of this will work due to: lack of ability, lack of interest, and complacent attitudes.

[crisisjez]

The real answer is to improve the public transport infrastructure so that driving becomes a choice rather that a necessity.

[ypauly]

crisisjez said:

The real answer is to improve the public transport infrastructure so that driving becomes a choice rather that a necessity.

you are red ken aicm£5

[crisisjez]

ypauly said:

crisisjez said:

The real answer is to improve the public transport infrastructure so that driving becomes a choice rather that a necessity.

you are red ken aicm£5

Come again?

[lazy_b]

ypauly said:

crisisjez said:

The real answer is to improve the public transport infrastructure so that driving becomes a choice rather that a necessity.

you are red ken aicm£5

WRONG!
Red Ken wanted to make driving (in London) so bad that public transport was the least bad alternative.
I'll go with crisisjez's answer - improve public transport so that those who don't like driving/can't drive have a viable alternative, and leave the roads for those who want to drive.

[parapaul]

I don't think you could safely impose a minimum speed limit on anything other than dual carriageways and motorways - but even that would be a start.

I would love to say that anyone who doesn't drive as fast as me shouldn't be on the road, but in reality that would probably reduce the number of drivers on the road to the PH massive...

A national campaign directed at slower drivers to look in their rear view mirrors occasionally would be good too.

[Jules2477]

Interesting initial responses and quite rightly any change would need to be something workable. I certainly like the idea of educating slow drivers to regularly pull over to let traffic pass which is an extention of the Highway code section about advice to drivers of slow moving vehicles. Whilst not easy to police as such, regular public informamtion films on prime time TV would reach a wide audience of such drivers and help promote the idea by highlighting the benefits in a postive way. - They push the reasoning for 30's so it could be seen as giving a bit back.

The question of competence is always going to be a debatable issue but if a diver really cannot drive at say 50 on wide open straight stretch of A road, they really should not have a licence. Arguably they are not able to afford reasonable consideration for other road users but in the PC world we now live in, minority groups must be catered for and the majority are expected to work around the issues !

[vonhosen]

Jules2477 said:

Interesting initial responses and quite rightly any change would need to be something workable. I certainly like the idea of educating slow drivers to regularly pull over to let traffic pass which is an extention of the Highway code section about advice to drivers of slow moving vehicles. Whilst not easy to police as such, regular public informamtion films on prime time TV would reach a wide audience of such drivers and help promote the idea by highlighting the benefits in a postive way. - They push the reasoning for 30's so it could be seen as giving a bit back.

The question of competence is always going to be a debatable issue but if a diver really cannot drive at say 50 on wide open straight stretch of A road, they really should not have a licence. Arguably they are not able to afford reasonable consideration for other road users but in the PC world we now live in, minority groups must be catered for and the majority are expected to work around the issues !

Does the bold follow also if they can't keep to 50 & the limit was 50 on that road ?

[crisisjez]

What about educating drivers, who clearly are capable of that education to display tolerence and patience when confronted with a slow driver?

[Jules2477]

vonhosen said:

Jules2477 said:

Interesting initial responses and quite rightly any change would need to be something workable. I certainly like the idea of educating slow drivers to regularly pull over to let traffic pass which is an extention of the Highway code section about advice to drivers of slow moving vehicles. Whilst not easy to police as such, regular public informamtion films on prime time TV would reach a wide audience of such drivers and help promote the idea by highlighting the benefits in a postive way. - They push the reasoning for 30's so it could be seen as giving a bit back.

The question of competence is always going to be a debatable issue but if a diver really cannot drive at say 50 on wide open straight stretch of A road, they really should not have a licence. Arguably they are not able to afford reasonable consideration for other road users but in the PC world we now live in, minority groups must be catered for and the majority are expected to work around the issues !

Does the bold follow also if they can't keep to 50 & the limit was 50 on that road ?

I was thinking de-restricted generally and that 50 was a reasonable and acceptable compromise.

[Jules2477]

crisisjez said:

What about educating drivers, who clearly are capable of that education to display tolerence and patience when confronted with a slow driver?

I think many already do especially when an L plate is dispalyed. I am always okay with holding back to give learners a chance - Education is a two way thing though. Tolerance of slower (non learner) drivers should be balanced against consideration by them to others (probably the vast majority) who simply seek to make reasonable progress when conditions allow. My initial point in the thread was about risk taking to overtake these people which can lead to accidents. With the best will in the world, excessively slow driving can stretch tolerabilty to the limit especially if someone has had a bad day or under pressure to get from A to B. - I think we have all been there.

The other point is that there is usually the option to go the 'Pretty way' if you want to bimble along at 30-35 without an endless train of hacked off drivers behind you. I do this myself sometimes if wifey wants to look at the baa lambs or whatever but if anything comes up behind me I move over at the earliest opportunity to let them pass as I am sure other advanced drivers do.

Edited by Jules2477 on Saturday 9th August 17:45

[crisisjez]

Jules2477 said:

crisisjez said:

What about educating drivers, who clearly are capable of that education to display tolerence and patience when confronted with a slow driver?

I think many already do especially when an L plate is dispalyed. I am always okay with holding back to give learners a chance - Education is a two way thing though. Tolerance of slower (non learner) drivers should be balanced against consideration by them to others (probably the vast majority) who simply seek to make reasonable progress when conditions allow. My initial point in the thread was about risk taking to overtake these people which can lead to accidents. With the best will in the world, excessively slow driving can stretch tolerabilty to the limit especially if someone has had a bad day or under pressure to get from A to B. - I think we have all been there.

The other point is that there is usually the option to go the 'Pretty way' if you want to bimble along at 30-35 without an endless train of hacked off drivers behind you. I do this myself sometimes if wifey wants to look at the baa lambs or whatever but if anything comes up behind me I move over at the earliest opportunity to let them pass as I am sure other advanced drivers do.

Edited by Jules2477 on Saturday 9th August 17:45

It`s still the risk takers that require the most education IMO.
Although your points are well made and taken.

[p1esk]

crisisjez said:

What about educating drivers, who clearly are capable of that education to display tolerence and patience when confronted with a slow driver?

Yes, I'd rather tackle this through a campaign of driver education, aimed at

a) Getting normal drivers to be more patient and tolerant towards the slow ones, and

b) Getting the slow ones to either speed up a bit (if they can do so safely) or at least make some attempt to minimise the delay they cause to others.

At the moment I'm not in favour of trying to impose a minimum speed limit anywhere.

I'm not in favour of trying to enforce a maximum speed limit out of town either!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[junder]

forcing people to drive faster than they are happy with is more dangerous than them going slowly surely ??

[Jules2477]

junder said:

forcing people to drive faster than they are happy with is more dangerous than them going slowly surely ??

I entirely agree but there has to be a happy medium. That is not 35 on a main trunk route or dual carriageway which can be dangerous due speed differential. Fortunately testing already requires a driver to make good progress and hopefully new testing will improve things further. It will take many years for the benefits to filter through.

[crisisjez]

Jules2477 said:

junder said:

forcing people to drive faster than they are happy with is more dangerous than them going slowly surely ??

I entirely agree but there has to be a happy medium. That is not 35 on a main trunk route or dual carriageway which can be dangerous due speed differential. Fortunately testing already requires a driver to make good progress and hopefully new testing will improve things further. It will take many years for the benefits to filter through.

This whole topic has in mind for me one particular group of motorist.
Those in the winter of their driving lives.
With reduced senses,reactions and motor control these people are already driving at what is to them a fair speed.
Many old people rely on the use of a car to stay in touch with their relatives and friends and to interact with the community as public transport is woefully inadequate, forcing them to drive faster or indeed conceed to faster traffic may be an impossible task. To remove them from their car`s is tantamount to a prison sentence and would be unjust. (Remember we`re all getting old too) Regardless I still believe they have as much right to use the road as do I, and as to them being the dangerous one`s I still hold its the risk takers and intolerent drivers who are the real problem.
I would be quite happy to sit at the rear of a string of cars doing less than optimum speed on a road if it was so that old Auntie Mavis was going to make her grand daughters christening, and the reason!
I always allow more than enough time for any journey when punctuality is important.
And isn`t that a golden rule?

Wait till the baby boomer generation gets older then you`ll see slow as we`ll all still be driving

Probably a little group huggy but a different viewpoint never hurts

Edited by crisisjez on Monday 11th August 00:41

[Jules2477]

crisisjez said:

Jules2477 said:

junder said:

forcing people to drive faster than they are happy with is more dangerous than them going slowly surely ??

I entirely agree but there has to be a happy medium. That is not 35 on a main trunk route or dual carriageway which can be dangerous due speed differential. Fortunately testing already requires a driver to make good progress and hopefully new testing will improve things further. It will take many years for the benefits to filter through.

This whole topic has in mind for me one particular group of motorist.
Those in the winter of their driving lives.
With reduced senses,reactions and motor control these people are already driving at what is to them a fair speed.
Many old people rely on the use of a car to stay in touch with their relatives and friends and to interact with the community as public transport is woefully inadequate, forcing them to drive faster or indeed conceed to faster traffic may be an impossible task. To remove them from their car`s is tantamount to a prison sentence and would be unjust. (Remember we`re all getting old too) Regardless I still believe they have as much right to use the road as do I, and as to them being the dangerous one`s I still hold its the risk takers and intolerent drivers who are the real problem.
I would be quite happy to sit at the rear of a string of cars doing less than optimum speed on a road if it was so that old Auntie Mavis was going to make her grand daughters christening, and the reason!
I always allow more than enough time for any journey when punctuality is important.
And isn`t that a golden rule?

Wait till the baby boomer generation gets older then you`ll see slow as we`ll all still be driving

Probably a little group huggy but a different viewpoint never hurts

Edited by crisisjez on Monday 11th August 00:41

First point is that I for one, am not targeting any specific group and it is certainly not older drivers. I know a number of drivers in their eighties who make reasonsble and acceptable progress. Experience more than compensates for the slowing reactions, but equally I know of two local drivers who are far from old but everyone treats with intripedation. One of these persons is an employee and if she takes passengers. joining the M4 at around 30 (no exageration) scares the hell out of them - No one will now get in the car with her and her accident record is not very good either. - Always someone elses fault in her eyes of course ! The other just never exceeds about 30 anywhere but fortunatley, is too scared to consider joining a motorway. Secondly, reason alone is not justification to grant or retain a licence and never ever should be. Only a fool would suggest that someone drives beyond their limits but you do have to set parameters of what is a reasonable, considerate and an acceptable level of competence. That is all this thread is suggesting but it maybe that some roads are not for slow drivers and educating or advising them to look at alternative routes to suit their capability, comfort level or simply desire to drive slowly would promote general safety for all. Fully appreciating that telling Auntie Mavis that she should pack up is a tough and emotive issue to deal with, it is not a prison sentence. There are plenty of options for retaining mobility in most areas, for example a few taxi trips would work out significantly cheaper than running a car. Then you have friends, family and community drivers. - If old Auntie Mavis wanted to attend a family christening I would be first in the queue to take her if she was no longer up to making reasonble progress away from her local roads as I would be worried sick if she was let loose on the A1 at 35 mph.

Edited by Jules2477 on Monday 11th August 13:20

[crisisjez]

There was nothing in your post that suggested you were, forgive me if I gave that impression.

Edited by crisisjez on Monday 11th August 14:50