Disheartened by advanced tests

[Fishfacing]

Hi all,

I'm posting this for moral support!

Some while ago, there being no RoSPA group nearby, I took a week's advanced course under ex-police instruction. It was a great course and I was told my roadcraft was high silver/low gold ... until I blew the test through nerves and got a bronze Positioning had been a weakness under pressure, so I have worked hard at positioning consistency since then.

Rather than give up, I joined my local IAM group. I had a great observer, who was a serving Class 1 cop, which really helped. After some observed runs, he said I was above the required standard and easily ready for test. Then I failed my IAM test, in large part for being too cautious I normally make good progress, but being on test made me behave too cautiously and focus excessively on keeping to the speed limit.

I'm left demoralised and wondering if I'm doomed to test nerves ruining my chances of success. I'm pretty depressed about the whole thing.

[Vaux]

Fishfacing said:

Hi all,

I'm posting this for moral support!

Some while ago, there being no RoSPA group nearby, I took a week's advanced course under ex-police instruction. It was a great course and I was told my roadcraft was high silver/low gold ... until I blew the test through nerves and got a bronze Positioning had been a weakness under pressure, so I have worked hard at positioning consistency since then.

Rather than give up, I joined my local IAM group. I had a great observer, who was a serving Class 1 cop, which really helped. After some observed runs, he said I was above the required standard and easily ready for test. Then I failed my IAM test, in large part for being too cautious I normally make good progress, but being on test made me behave too cautiously and focus excessively on keeping to the speed limit.

I'm left demoralised and wondering if I'm doomed to test nerves ruining my chances of success. I'm pretty depressed about the whole thing.

Sorry to hear you failed.

Your Observer/Tutor obviously see you drive at the required standard, so it's not that - why do you get nervous? The Examiner is there to pass you, not to fail you. The way it's explained to me is you start with a pass till you do something which will turn it into a fail, not the other way round.

When I've heard of people failing for lack of progress, it's because they've been driving at 25 in a 30 and generally not up to the limit where safe to do so - you're not going to fail for driving to the speed limit. Was there something else the Examiner mentioned?

Anyway, I'd give it another go!

[BOF]

Fishface,

"I'm left demoralised and wondering if I'm doomed to test nerves ruining my chances of success. I'm pretty depressed about the whole thing."

In Max Bygraves mode...

'Let me tell you a story?'

I failed the IAM test in 1966, I guess before you were born...depressed...yes, just a wee bit...demoralised...kind of.

But, I realised after a while that I was not as good as I thought I was...and then thought,over a period, F**k this for a Friday...I can do this...and did.

The thought to keep in your head is that you have a wish to improve your driving...for safety and for enjoyment...

Had you passed first time, you maybe could have lost a LOT of good experience...

Go for it...

BOF

[agent006]

Does it really matter? Your observer has confirmed you are at a sufficient standard. I guess it depends on whether you're in it for a bit of paper, or to become safer.

[7mike]

I have done quite a few tests over the years (LGV, PCV, RoSPA, IAM etc)and still get nervous doing them. Nowadays I just do commentary throughought and forget about the guy sat next to me, that way I am focused soley on my driving. In test conditions we usually start to doubt, in our own mind even the most simple tasks and that's when the silly faults start to creep in. If you can get used to commentary through the whole test this also gives you a greater sense of control with the examiner now having to 'but in' to ask questions, give directions etc. Never known a RoSPA / IAM examiner to have a problem with this.

[falcemob]

Does it really matter whether you have a bit of paper to say how good you are?
You know yourself your high points and weaknesses and passing a test won't make an iota of difference to your skills.
As I have posted before, I had quite a lot of observed drives with the local IAM but never bothered with the test partly because in the end I didn't want to be associated with the IAM and their holier-than-thou attitudes, I don't think it makes me any better or worse as a driver for not doing the test.

[petermansell]

You know you can do it becuase when not in exam mode you meet the standard. So keep trying - and you will meet the standard even when under exam pressure.

[TonyHetherington]

Whether you pass the test or not, your driving has been proven (by consistently high praise from your observer / courses) to be very good and after all - why do you join the IAM ?? Is it to become a member or is it to improve your driving?

I think you have done very well and it's a shame that under test conditions you are a little nervous, but keep telling yourself that your driving has improved and for that you should be proud

[incartunes]

the problem with the different groups is that they are looking for different driving styles.
if you drive according to road craft you wont be graded highly by rospa and vice versa. every advanced driving company has their own guidlines same as the ambulance have their own version of road craft.
they arent saying you are doing anything wrong, its more a case of they are not looking for you to be driving like you are.
the best thing to do is pick up pointers on each course and drive so you are comfortable, if its the grading that you are after then you will have to understand what that particular examiner is looking for and adapt your driving to suit.
dont be dishartened though, see it as a challenge and a learning experience.

[vonhosen]

There will be a lot of very good drivers (possibly better than a lot of IAM/RoADA) who don't hold IAM/RoADA certificates. I suggest you are in good company.
I suspect they don't let it get them down & I suggest you don't either.
The continual objective assessment of your driving with a view to improvement is far more important than a certificate.

Edited by vonhosen on Monday 14th July 06:57

[Isoproturon1]

agent006 said:

Does it really matter? Your observer has confirmed you are at a sufficient standard. I guess it depends on whether you're in it for a bit of paper, or to become safer.

My thoughts entirely, though it would be nice to have the proof.

[Fishfacing]

Vaux said:

Was there something else the Examiner mentioned?

The examiner was quite vague, unfortunately. If you fail, you don’t get anything from the IAM to explain what you need to do to improve

agent006 said:

Does it really matter?

Objectively, no. Subjectively, yes, because I’ve invested time and effort to reach this milestone. Plus I’d like the option to use IAM insurance when my renewal comes up.

incartunes said:

the problem with the different groups is that they are looking for different driving styles.

I think this is part of the answer. No doubt test nerves played a part too. However, my observer really liked my style and the examiner really didn’t. (Both had a Class 1, so should know their onions.)

vonhosen said:

There will be a lot of very good drivers (possibly better than a lot of IAM/RoADA) who don't hold IAM/RoADA certificates. I suggest you are in good company.

Many thanks vonhosen – much appreciated words. From someone with your background, that makes me feel better.

BOF said:

Had you passed first time, you maybe could have lost a LOT of good experience...

That’s what I’m telling myself. If I learn more through additional observed runs, that would be a silver lining.

[waremark]

incartunes said:

the problem with the different groups is that they are looking for different driving styles.
if you drive according to road craft you wont be graded highly by rospa and vice versa.

I wonder what you have in mind here?? My local Rospa senior examiner was a police advanced instructor. If you drive according to his understanding of Roadcraft you will certainly be given a Gold. The same drive would get you a very positive report from the IAM examiner most of my associates go to.

However, different individuals have different understandings of Roadcraft. I believe that most local groups of both IAM and Rospa get their ideas from their local examiners, and that there are more differences between individual groups than between IAM and Rospa in what they are looking for.

[Don]

waremark said:

incartunes said:

the problem with the different groups is that they are looking for different driving styles.
if you drive according to road craft you wont be graded highly by rospa and vice versa.

I wonder what you have in mind here?? My local Rospa senior examiner was a police advanced instructor. If you drive according to his understanding of Roadcraft you will certainly be given a Gold. The same drive would get you a very positive report from the IAM examiner most of my associates go to.

However, different individuals have different understandings of Roadcraft. I believe that most local groups of both IAM and Rospa get their ideas from their local examiners, and that there are more differences between individual groups than between IAM and Rospa in what they are looking for.

I can't believe incartunes meant that quite how it is written (I hope!). Roadcraft is Roadcraft. It doesn't vary. The core of any "advanced driving" group or organisation is Roadcraft. Sure you'll get a different set of tips and tricks off people but the thing you need to demonstrate to pass Rospa/IAM/anything else is use of the System of Car Control as explained in Roadcraft. "End Of" as they say.

I did my IAM test. Went and did Rospa (twice) got a Gold (twice) by driving in exactly the same manner!

[crisisjez]

Having been an Instructor and Examiner myself for many years (different method of transport but entirely the same principle) I`ve seen this before.
You really really want this, don`t you?
You must be prepared to make mistakes on your test, you are only Human after all, and providing they are are not too major (which I am confident they will not be) the examiner will be looking at not only how you are driving but how you deal with those mistakes.
Remember, nothing worth having is easy, but its the getting there that is important so the more tuition you have ultimately the better driver you will be long term.
When you can get this straight in your head you will find that the test can actually be quite enjoyable, mistakes and all.


Good Luck.

[hardboiledPhil]

Practice, practice, practice! I've spent so much time now with a co-driver sat at the side of me that sitting in with an assessor hardly registers on the interest scale and I just drive as I drive.

[p1esk]

agent006 said:

Does it really matter? Your observer has confirmed you are at a sufficient standard. I guess it depends on whether you're in it for a bit of paper, or to become safer.

If it is important to you to pass the test for your own satisfaction, and have the certificate to prove it, have another go, and I wish you every success. It sounds as if you should be OK if you can keep the nerves problem at bay.

For my own purposes I decided there was no real benefit, so I didn't bother pursuing things as far as taking the formal test.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[p1esk]

vonhosen said:

There will be a lot of very good drivers (possibly better than a lot of IAM/RoADA) who don't hold IAM/RoADA certificates. I suggest you are in good company.
I suspect they don't let it get them down & I suggest you don't either.
The continual objective assessment of your driving with a view to improvement is far more important than a certificate.

There you are, you see. Von isn't a member of the IAM and as far as I know he copes OK - or perhaps even a bit better than merely OK, on a good day.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[incartunes]

Don said:

waremark said:

incartunes said:

the problem with the different groups is that they are looking for different driving styles.
if you drive according to road craft you wont be graded highly by rospa and vice versa.

I wonder what you have in mind here?? My local Rospa senior examiner was a police advanced instructor. If you drive according to his understanding of Roadcraft you will certainly be given a Gold. The same drive would get you a very positive report from the IAM examiner most of my associates go to.

However, different individuals have different understandings of Roadcraft. I believe that most local groups of both IAM and Rospa get their ideas from their local examiners, and that there are more differences between individual groups than between IAM and Rospa in what they are looking for.

I can't believe incartunes meant that quite how it is written (I hope!). Roadcraft is Roadcraft. It doesn't vary. The core of any "advanced driving" group or organisation is Roadcraft. Sure you'll get a different set of tips and tricks off people but the thing you need to demonstrate to pass Rospa/IAM/anything else is use of the System of Car Control as explained in Roadcraft. "End Of" as they say.

I did my IAM test. Went and did Rospa (twice) got a Gold (twice) by driving in exactly the same manner!

nope, it was meant how it was said, and is down to personal experience.
the other company we run has instructors that are police adviced driving instructors, d1 examiners and have qualifications throughout many of the advanced driving groups not just on a driving level but an examination level too.
they continuosly find that their driving habits have to be adapted to suit the particular course and examiner at the time. they have repeatedly witnesed heated conversations between examiners due to marking structure.
in principle, roadcraft is roadcraft. BUT, there are variations, for example, the ambulance service use thier own interpretation.
to get the highest mark you have to understand what exactly the examiner is looking for and use the course as guidence. he may not be looking at the same as the next examiner.

[7mike]

incartunes said:

Don said:

waremark said:

incartunes said:

the problem with the different groups is that they are looking for different driving styles.
if you drive according to road craft you wont be graded highly by rospa and vice versa.

I wonder what you have in mind here?? My local Rospa senior examiner was a police advanced instructor. If you drive according to his understanding of Roadcraft you will certainly be given a Gold. The same drive would get you a very positive report from the IAM examiner most of my associates go to.

However, different individuals have different understandings of Roadcraft. I believe that most local groups of both IAM and Rospa get their ideas from their local examiners, and that there are more differences between individual groups than between IAM and Rospa in what they are looking for.

I can't believe incartunes meant that quite how it is written (I hope!). Roadcraft is Roadcraft. It doesn't vary. The core of any "advanced driving" group or organisation is Roadcraft. Sure you'll get a different set of tips and tricks off people but the thing you need to demonstrate to pass Rospa/IAM/anything else is use of the System of Car Control as explained in Roadcraft. "End Of" as they say.

I did my IAM test. Went and did Rospa (twice) got a Gold (twice) by driving in exactly the same manner!

nope, it was meant how it was said, and is down to personal experience.
the other company we run has instructors that are police adviced driving instructors, d1 examiners and have qualifications throughout many of the advanced driving groups not just on a driving level but an examination level too.
they continuosly find that their driving habits have to be adapted to suit the particular course and examiner at the time. they have repeatedly witnesed heated conversations between examiners due to marking structure.
in principle, roadcraft is roadcraft. BUT, there are variations, for example, the ambulance service use thier own interpretation.
to get the highest mark you have to understand what exactly the examiner is looking for and use the course as guidence. he may not be looking at the same as the next examiner.

People will always interpret rules/guide books differently however can you give one example of how the IAM differs officially from RoSPA in the driving style that is sought in their respective tests?
PS. welcome back out of hibernation