IAM views on using the full wdith of the road.
Discussion
Kozy said:
Just wondering what stance the IAM examiners would take with crossing the white lines on country roads when negotiating corners. Obviously only when the way ahead is completely clear. Is this frowned upon?
Have you joined IAM?The book provided - 'Advanced Driving the essential guide', mentions on page 69:
"but don't cross the white line or hit the cats'-eyes unless you have excellent visibility through the corner"
They mean a broken white line.
RoADAR on the other hand forbids it in documentation, although if you ask an Examiner he'll expect it IME.
My observer didn't want me cutting corners where there was a broken white line, no matter what the visibility. No line - use all the road.
Just don't cross a solid white line except in very few circumstances e.g. passing a stationary or very slow moving vehicle.
Make sure you get back to the nearside for a closer set of broken white (hazard) lines.
What's the official IAM stance on "offsiding?"
Just don't cross a solid white line except in very few circumstances e.g. passing a stationary or very slow moving vehicle.
Make sure you get back to the nearside for a closer set of broken white (hazard) lines.
What's the official IAM stance on "offsiding?"
I progressed through several courses on advanced driving to gain a class one. However, that was some years ago and the whole width of the road was in play as long as it was safe. Talking to my neighbour who is an advanced instructor, I gather the thinking has erred towards towards keeping within the lane markings. The reasoning is that advanced drivers should be setting an example in safety so to the uninformed, using the offside of the road is viewed as dangerous ! Personally. I will contiue to use the whole road if appropriate and safe to gain a better view. There is certainly no law aggainst it.
As part of the test route when I took my IAM test was on country lanes too narrow for two vehicles to pass I approached some corners completely on the 'wrong' side of the road. The only comment from the examiner was, "I see you are used to driving on narrow lanes". Yep - 3 miles of my route to work was on lanes mostly too narrow for two vehicles to pass. However, only on a few occassions did I stray over the 'dotted' centre line on 'normal' width roads when approaching LH corners or negociating open full visibilty corners - no comment from examiner (and I passed).
A while ago, I "checked out" a Senior Observer from my local IAM Group.
On of his comments to his Associate at de-brief was to keep in marked lanes at roundabouts.
After punter had left, I asked SO about that advice - particularly the timing of same.
As we had just driven through a smallish roundabout.
"There were no lanes marked on that roundabout" sayeth I,
"how would you have responded if your "man" had pointed that out?"
Brief pause. "I would have told him to imagine there were"
Excuse me?
Clouding what MAY be correct advice (given perception of recepient's level of understanding) with "iffy" reasons?
My personal view is that there should be no offsiding advocated at (pretty basic) IAM test standard - as there should also be none at DSA test level.
BUT I would expect reasoned discussion of same as we progress up the ladder - and indeed would expect a Senior to demonstrate it to me.
On of his comments to his Associate at de-brief was to keep in marked lanes at roundabouts.
After punter had left, I asked SO about that advice - particularly the timing of same.
As we had just driven through a smallish roundabout.
"There were no lanes marked on that roundabout" sayeth I,
"how would you have responded if your "man" had pointed that out?"
Brief pause. "I would have told him to imagine there were"
Excuse me?
Clouding what MAY be correct advice (given perception of recepient's level of understanding) with "iffy" reasons?
My personal view is that there should be no offsiding advocated at (pretty basic) IAM test standard - as there should also be none at DSA test level.
BUT I would expect reasoned discussion of same as we progress up the ladder - and indeed would expect a Senior to demonstrate it to me.
1950trevorP said:
My personal view is that there should be no offsiding advocated at (pretty basic) IAM test standard - as there should also be none at DSA test level.
BUT I would expect reasoned discussion of same as we progress up the ladder - and indeed would expect a Senior to demonstrate it to me.
Our group advises Observers to explore offsiding/staightlining based on the skills and comprehension of the Associate. At test level, I don't think you'll fail for not doing it. You could fail if you do it inappropriately (best case). Beyond the test, it's something to be considered as part of the skills toolbox.BUT I would expect reasoned discussion of same as we progress up the ladder - and indeed would expect a Senior to demonstrate it to me.
Interesting that Roadcraft has gone quiet on offsiding?
Vaux said:
1950trevorP said:
My personal view is that there should be no offsiding advocated at (pretty basic) IAM test standard - as there should also be none at DSA test level.
BUT I would expect reasoned discussion of same as we progress up the ladder - and indeed would expect a Senior to demonstrate it to me.
Our group advises Observers to explore offsiding/staightlining based on the skills and comprehension of the Associate. At test level, I don't think you'll fail for not doing it. You could fail if you do it inappropriately (best case). Beyond the test, it's something to be considered as part of the skills toolbox.BUT I would expect reasoned discussion of same as we progress up the ladder - and indeed would expect a Senior to demonstrate it to me.
Interesting that Roadcraft has gone quiet on offsiding?
On of his comments to his Associate at de-brief was to keep in marked lanes at roundabouts.
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vonhosen said:
Vaux said:
Interesting that Roadcraft has gone quiet on offsiding?
Was it vociferous about it before ?The bit I'm thinking about was pg 121 in the previous edition, titled "Reducing the tighness of the bend". The diagrams show what I take to be open bends (no green shrubbery cf to pg 120 bends) and although positioning is shown only up to the centre line, the text does talk about "moving your vehicle from one side of the available road space to the other..."
This section appears to be missing completely from the current edition. Maybe it's still taught to Police on courses, just not included in the book to prevent normal MoP reading it and trying to replicate without suitable guidance.
Vaux said:
vonhosen said:
Vaux said:
Interesting that Roadcraft has gone quiet on offsiding?
Was it vociferous about it before ?The bit I'm thinking about was pg 121 in the previous edition, titled "Reducing the tighness of the bend". The diagrams show what I take to be open bends (no green shrubbery cf to pg 120 bends) and although positioning is shown only up to the centre line, the text does talk about "moving your vehicle from one side of the available road space to the other..."
This section appears to be missing completely from the current edition. Maybe it's still taught to Police on courses, just not included in the book to prevent normal MoP reading it and trying to replicate without suitable guidance.
Some allow it, some don't.
Again, I was taught "if safe, use the whole road", but with a cautionary note to be mindful of "public" (i.e. general motoring public) perception when doing so. So basically I tend not to unless I am really pressing on and there are no other vehicles that will see me.
I am not a fan of demonising use of the offside though. There's a common perception that if you're on the offside you must be a suicidal nutter. Why? I pay for the whole road and I'll decide when it's appropriate to use all of the road!
I am not a fan of demonising use of the offside though. There's a common perception that if you're on the offside you must be a suicidal nutter. Why? I pay for the whole road and I'll decide when it's appropriate to use all of the road!
So let me get this straight.
So long as you think its safe to do so its officially ok to drive on the wrong side of the road?
Well IMO if you need both sides you are either driving far too fast or racing and neither should be condoned by a serious motoring organisation.
If you hold the rather infantile view that you have paid for both sides of the road so why not use them both, what do you do when someone with an equally small brain coming the other way is doing the same thing.
If you want to race, put your hand in your pocket and pay for some track time and get up earlier in the morning so you don`t have to `push on a bit` on the same roads my wife and kids use thanks.
So long as you think its safe to do so its officially ok to drive on the wrong side of the road?
Well IMO if you need both sides you are either driving far too fast or racing and neither should be condoned by a serious motoring organisation.
If you hold the rather infantile view that you have paid for both sides of the road so why not use them both, what do you do when someone with an equally small brain coming the other way is doing the same thing.
If you want to race, put your hand in your pocket and pay for some track time and get up earlier in the morning so you don`t have to `push on a bit` on the same roads my wife and kids use thanks.
crisisjez said:
If you hold the rather infantile view that you have paid for both sides of the road so why not use them both, what do you do when someone with an equally small brain coming the other way is doing the same thing.
If you were both on the wrong side of the road then presumably you would miss each other anyway 
.Vaux said:
vonhosen said:
Police schools don't have a uniform approach to it.
Some allow it, some don't.
Seems strange that IAM allows it and some Police don't!Some allow it, some don't.
Know the rules of the club your joining for 'their test'.
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