overtaking in a classic car

[sir_lurk_alot]

Quick question,

I drive a classic beetle '71, I have done a bit of work on her (lowered, alloys, new tires, mainly to improve the handling) since I purchased her a couple of months ago. I havent got round to adding a new engine and am looking at the options. She currently has the original 1200 from when she was built but cruises happily at 70mph down the motor way.

I have noticed that some people seem to take offense by being overtaken by a classic car. I tend to use the near side lane when on the motor way to keep out of the faster traffics way (not a middle lane hogger even though i can sustain a speed of 70mph) but i often find if i move into the middle lane to overtake someone moving slower they speed up as i am overtaking.

This leaves me in rather an awkward position as a 1200cc, 37 year old engine starts to run out of steam past 70mph (although she will do 80 mph but takes her time getting there)which means i am left sitting in the middle lane, obstructing faster moving traffic and unable to move back into the near side lane.

i get caught out by this pretty frequently and could do with some advice, i have found that if the car in the near side lane does speed up whilst i am in the middle lane they will, at some point, need to slow down for a slower moving vehicle in the near side lane, a lorry for example. The only problem with that is that it leaves me in the middle lane obstructing the faster moving traffic.

Any constructive advice is appreciated,

[Nurburgsingh]

I dont think there si anything that you can do about it...

Some people suffer form what amounts to no more than small penis syndrome.

I drive a small diesel that will happily exceed the speed limit but people still treat me the same... Small/old cars simply arent allowed to overtake dawdlers (sp?) on the roads these days.

The only constructive advice I can offer is plan WELL in advance for any overtakes, but be prepared for the the driver you've just passed to suddenly wake up and roar past you.
It's not a new thing on the roads, I used to drive a 1200 Beetle back in the early 90's I ddi my IAM test and Observers assesment with it and regularly overtook cars on the MWay and on NSL roads, only to have the driver blast past me instantly or hang on my bumper through the countryside.

Just be confident in the fact that at the end of the day you've still got a damn cool car and they have got size/inferiority issues.

[sir_lurk_alot]

thanks for the advice Nurburgsingh, sounds like it infuriates you as well.

I do try and plan my overtakes in advance for 3 reasons a, to not obstruct other road users, b, becuase if i slow down it takes a while to build the speed back up and c, if the person i am about to overtake is going to mess around i hope they will do it before i get there, if they wake up and speed off before i get there i can simply pull back into the nearside lane without any problems.

I guess the best thing to do is simply to be prepared for it to happen by being extra vigilant, at least then i wont get caught out.

thanks again.

[Poledriver]

There are a few Porker engines which are a direct swap for your 1200cc lump!

[sir_lurk_alot]

Hi Poledriver,

I have only had her a couple of months, i am looking at other engine options but thought i would sort out the handling first (lowering, adding a new steering block, replace the old cross ply tires with new tires), next i want to sort out the brakes by replacing the drums with disks (the previous owners had hardly touched her and she has been in storage most of her life).

Then I will look at sticking a new lump in her, a friend of a friend has just stuck a scooby engine in a beetle, apparently it will wheelie in 4th gear, although i think the novelty of having the front 2 wheels off the floor doing 80mph will start to wear off when they need to go round corners. Then of course there is the porsche engine which should just drop straight in. I think i will probably be boring and just get a bored out 1.8 and drop that in, shouldnt be too big a job, will probably look at doing that over the winter to be honest.

Its a cool car that just makes me smile and a lot of fun so im just enjoying driving her around in the hot weather, dont really want her off the road at the mo. Of course though, a bigger engine would resolve the initial problem.

[Nurburgsingh]

I have a plan for a pair of top quality bugs.... but this years racing has eaten the budget for them... so they'll have to wait.

just DONT be tempted to spoil your car by dropping a Subaru lump in there!

[sir_lurk_alot]

you dont think bucket seats, four point harness, scooby engine and wheelie bars would be a good idea?

dont worry, neither do i, i am simply trying to keep the natural style of the beetle and just make it, a little more fun by enhancing its features.

i think a 1.8 engine should fit in nicely, without having to rip out the back seats. Then im planning on restoring the body, i have lowered it already, but its not slammed and i havent used a narrow beam.

its a cool car, it doesnt need chaving up to look good, it just needs tweaking here and there.

[garethj]

Poledriver said:

There are a few Porker engines which are a direct swap for your 1200cc lump!

• urban myth alert

The only Porsche engine which will "drop in" is from a Porsche 356. It'll still need trimming around the tinware and modifying the throttle cable of course, but that's 60bhp, 75bhp or 90bhp for between 2 and 4 grand. And the price of spares will make you cry.

I've had a few VWs in my illustrious car history and the current car has a 1641cc Beetle engine with a balanced bottom end, 110 cam, 2 twin Weber 36 carbs and a tidy exhaust. It makes 80bhp at 5000rpm so with the high ratio gearbox from a 1500 Beetle that sends it to just under 100mph.

Obviously you're all over the road at that speed even lowered by 2 inches front and rear (never just lower the front of a Beetle!!), a camber compensator and Porsche brakes. However it'll cruise at 75mph for hours and accelerate strongly to 85mph. These are speeds off the GPS by the way, and not that much goes past at a genuine 85mph. Acceleration only tails off above 90mph but to be honest that's probably down to the driver getting nervous....

It'll also do things like start a long motorway uphill at 70mph and finish it at 70mph+, completely alien to a Beetle driver

I got the engine second hand from someone who was upgrading and it was about £700. That's a good way to go I reckon.

[TVR 26S]

I have a 68' 1200 Beetle
WOOP WOOP

[Si_steve]

I had this problem when i had my 1995 fiesta SI 16v people just didnt like an older/sheddy(in my case)car overtaking them, but i soon sorted that by fitting a 2.0 mondeo engine on throttle bodies with 170bhp, was funny when a bmw driver tried to flash you over to the middle lane so they could speed, just sank the right foot and watched as the bmw became more distant

[sir_lurk_alot]

I think I am going to head down the 1641cc path, I dont think I would want to go much faster than 85-90mph in a 40 (well 37) year old beetle. At the same time though it would still have the poke to get up some of the bigger hills or to get past slower moving cars, which is really what i am after.

Another quick question, what is the definition of undertaking?

If I am in the near side lane and the traffic in the middle lane is moving faster, then for some reason (someone hits the breaks for example) the traffic in the middle lane starts moving slower than the traffic in the near side lane. As the traffic in the middle lane is now moving slower it gets passed by the traffic in the near side lane, is that classed as undertaking or is it purely when someone changes lane in order to gain an advantage? Or is there no difference and both are classed as undertaking?

[Distant]

In answer to your undertaking question, you may pass on the left when you're sat in a queue and the traffic in the left lane is moving faster than the right.

You may not move to the left to pass, ie. dive down the inside of someone hogging the middle/outside lane.

[sir_lurk_alot]

is it only when the traffic is queued though?

Say for example I am pottering along at 70mph in the near side lane, I move into the middle lane to overtake a lorry then move back into the nearside lane. Say after 5 or 10 minutes of traveling in the nearside lane there is someone doing 65mph in the middle lane. What is the correct course of action?

A) To shout obscenities at the person hogging the middle lane to try and get them to move into the near side lane?

B) To move to the outside lane (thus obstructing the faster moving traffic) in order to overtake them, after which returning to the near side lane?

or

C) Stay in the nearside lane passing them on their left?

[Distant]

I would pull out to lane 2 in good time and give them a couple of flashes. If no response then its out into lane 3 and past, then back to lane 1.

Just cruising past them in lane 1 is illegal.

[waremark]

Distant said:

I would pull out to lane 2 in good time and give them a couple of flashes. If no response then its out into lane 3 and past, then back to lane 1.

Just cruising past them in lane 1 is illegal.

There is no offence of overtaking on the left. It could only be illegal under a general provision such as Driving without Due Care.

The highway code section on passing on the left on motorways makes no reference to queues. It says (from memory): "If traffic is moving in lanes in congested conditions, and a lane is moving faster than a lane to the right, it is acceptable to pass on the left." There is no further guidance available, for example as to what constitutes traffic moving in lanes or congested conditions. However, the example given clearly would not meet this description.

In this example, why consider flashing? If lane 3 is available, use it. Don't hassle the middle lane driver. It's not your job to educate or rebuke him.

[sir_lurk_alot]

The only problem with that is that when there is a slower moving vehicle hogging the central lane everyone moves to the outside lane to pas them. This in turn means the outside lane starts to get congested, is it really a good idea to then stick another slow moving vehicle in everyones way, would that not just be making the issue even worse?

Highway code said:

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

Could moving to the outside lane to overtake then moving back again not be considered as weaving?

[Nurburgsingh]

sir_lurk_alot said:

The only problem with that is that when there is a slower moving vehicle hogging the central lane everyone moves to the outside lane to pas them. This in turn means the outside lane starts to get congested, is it really a good idea to then stick another slow moving vehicle in everyones way, would that not just be making the issue even worse?

Highway code said:

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

Could moving to the outside lane to overtake then moving back again not be considered as weaving?

So according to the highway code as long as the motorway is congested ( nearly all the time ) and all of the traffic is travelling at a similar speed ( is 65mph similar to 70mph? ) then you are allowed to pass on the left? Sweet.. thats my drive to work sorted.. I'm staying in lane 1 with the trucks.

The only way you're breaking the rule is if lane 3 is empty and you pass a middle lane hogger in lane 1.

[Distant]

waremark said:

In this example, why consider flashing? If lane 3 is available, use it. Don't hassle the middle lane driver. It's not your job to educate or rebuke him.

In my opinion this is exactly what the head light flash should be used for, used from a good distance back it simply says, I'm here. Maybe it'll wake up the mlm. However if lane 3 is clear I'll just go round.