Discussion
When I passed my test at 17 back in 2001, my insurance on a '88 1.1 Fiesta Festival when down from £1200 to £800 TPFT after Pass Plus. Was well worth it as it only cost circa £150, and the instructor was a legend. "I can see you're quite capable at driving Mr Birmingham, fancy finding a car park and practicing some handbrake turns?" 
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
okgo said:
MAde no difference to mine seemingly.
Wouldnt bother, what you save is what it costs anyway to a degree.
Avoid it.
Would you say that all further driving instruction is worthless if it doesn't cut your insurance?Wouldnt bother, what you save is what it costs anyway to a degree.
Avoid it.
40 quid to drive at night for two hours.. great.
My dads a driving instructor, and what we have to remember is that some people are not as confident driving on the motorway / at night and like to have someone next to them to make them feel warm and cuddly.
Agreed it didnt make a huge difference to my insurance, but for some people it is a bit of a neccesatiy! (spelling!)
Agreed it didnt make a huge difference to my insurance, but for some people it is a bit of a neccesatiy! (spelling!)
My son's insurance came down from £1,500 by about £150, which paid for the course. The saving was for one year only.
However good a driver you are, you really should not think you have learned it all by the time you pass your test. You will get a lot of benefit if you go back for Pass Plus after you have had a bit of practise on your own - whether you need help on the specified Pass Plus areas or not. I speak as someone who did not start taking advanced training until I had been driving for a few years, and who wishes I had had more training earlier. It did help me to enjoy my driving more as well as making me a far safer driver.
However good a driver you are, you really should not think you have learned it all by the time you pass your test. You will get a lot of benefit if you go back for Pass Plus after you have had a bit of practise on your own - whether you need help on the specified Pass Plus areas or not. I speak as someone who did not start taking advanced training until I had been driving for a few years, and who wishes I had had more training earlier. It did help me to enjoy my driving more as well as making me a far safer driver.
okgo said:
The way you become a more experienced driver is by getting out there and doing it, as with most things.
Edited for accuracy.The reason that most drivers rate themselves as 'above average' is because they have no idea just how much they still have to learn.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but without study and instruction it's unlikely you'll ever be really good.
It didn't make any difference to my insurance, but then my first car was a 1973 MGB which only cost me 300 quid fully comp to insure anyway.
I'd say it's well worth doing at least the motorway lesson - it certainly helped my driving significantly. I can't remember the rest of it so it can't have been that useful.
ETA: I went on to do the IAM course which was much more valuable (and did bring my insurance down a bit).
I'd say it's well worth doing at least the motorway lesson - it certainly helped my driving significantly. I can't remember the rest of it so it can't have been that useful.
ETA: I went on to do the IAM course which was much more valuable (and did bring my insurance down a bit).
Edited by kambites on Friday 30th May 20:28
I am a firm believer in catching drivers at an early age, any training that can be passed on at that stage is a life saver, trouble is that at the age they are it is seen as gay to go and do any training because they percieve themselves as invincible, in our area the pass plus is part funded by our local road safety group and is well subscribed, I also think the IAM are thought of as "old duffers" (wrongly but thats what they think) and a number of years ago they wouldn't accept a workmates son who had just passed his test due to "inexperience?" might have changed since then? What we need is people like PH'ers with "trendy" cars who are trained to pass it on and make the younguns realise it is not gay to do something to get the best out of their driving but safely, invite them out of the retail park car parks and onto a run where hopefully they will see the expertise available and want some? Just a thought?
Gary
Gary
Hi okgo,
The way to be any good is to seek out the best instruction you can find, combined with practising as much as possible.
My strong recommendation would be to avoid Pass Plus, but instead invest the money into a day with the likes of RideDrive ( www.ridedrive.co.uk ), Cadence, Bespoke, etc.
... or perhaps the IAM Young Driver Network, which can be found on Facebook for more info.
okgo said:
to be fair, unless you have done it you wouldnt know how largley pointless it is.
I have to agree with you. Nearly everyone I know who's done Pass Plus has got very little out of it. Sadly, many Pass Plus instructors are not very knowledgeable and have few skills to pass on beyond L-test standard. (I know there are some exceptions to this, of course.)okgo said:
The way you become a better driver is by getting out there and doing it, as with most things.
No! No! No! As with most things, the way to get better is through a combination of experience (as you say) and good coaching. Even Olympic athletes have coaches. Because you don't know what you don't know.The way to be any good is to seek out the best instruction you can find, combined with practising as much as possible.
My strong recommendation would be to avoid Pass Plus, but instead invest the money into a day with the likes of RideDrive ( www.ridedrive.co.uk ), Cadence, Bespoke, etc.
jaf01uk said:
What we need is people like PH'ers with "trendy" cars who are trained to pass it on ...
... such as the High Performance Club's Young Drivers Day: www.hpc.org.uk/ydd.lml... or perhaps the IAM Young Driver Network, which can be found on Facebook for more info.
Edited by SVS on Wednesday 11th June 15:08
Without inference to any of the comments above, if you DO go for advanced training, as has been suggested, do your homework.
"• sciolist •
Part of Speech: Noun
Meaning: Someone with superficial knowledge who pretends to be an expert on some subject.
Notes: The attitude itself is sciolism and anyone who is possessed of it is sciolistic or sciolous. These adjectives pave the way for two adverbs, as someone who talks sciolistically or pontificates sciously."
There's a lot of it around.
Take care...
BOF.
"• sciolist •
Part of Speech: Noun
Meaning: Someone with superficial knowledge who pretends to be an expert on some subject.
Notes: The attitude itself is sciolism and anyone who is possessed of it is sciolistic or sciolous. These adjectives pave the way for two adverbs, as someone who talks sciolistically or pontificates sciously."
There's a lot of it around.
Take care...
BOF.
BOF said:
Without inference to any of the comments above, if you DO go for advanced training, as has been suggested, do your homework.
"• sciolist •
Part of Speech: Noun
Meaning: Someone with superficial knowledge who pretends to be an expert on some subject.
Notes: The attitude itself is sciolism and anyone who is possessed of it is sciolistic or sciolous. These adjectives pave the way for two adverbs, as someone who talks sciolistically or pontificates sciously."
There's a lot of it around.
Take care...
BOF.
There sure is."• sciolist •
Part of Speech: Noun
Meaning: Someone with superficial knowledge who pretends to be an expert on some subject.
Notes: The attitude itself is sciolism and anyone who is possessed of it is sciolistic or sciolous. These adjectives pave the way for two adverbs, as someone who talks sciolistically or pontificates sciously."
There's a lot of it around.
Take care...
BOF.
Quite so. I can't help but agree with Sharief.
Whereas for £115 + VAT, RideDrive will cover:
- Development of advanced observation
- Car stability management
- Power management and control
- Advanced steering methods
- Advanced choice of gear ratios
- Advanced braking techniques
- Defensive vehicle positioning
- Higher level hazard identification and management
- Bend assessment
- Alternative road positioning methods
- Cornering techniques, which includes the linking of bends
- "Acceleration sense"
- Overtaking procedures
- Fast road driving (motorways and dual carriageways)
- Third party perception awareness
- Conflict prevention and resolution
www.ridedrive.co.uk
Not that I work for the company. And Cadence (www.cadence.co.uk) offer similar too.
Whereas for £115 + VAT, RideDrive will cover:
- Development of advanced observation
- Car stability management
- Power management and control
- Advanced steering methods
- Advanced choice of gear ratios
- Advanced braking techniques
- Defensive vehicle positioning
- Higher level hazard identification and management
- Bend assessment
- Alternative road positioning methods
- Cornering techniques, which includes the linking of bends
- "Acceleration sense"
- Overtaking procedures
- Fast road driving (motorways and dual carriageways)
- Third party perception awareness
- Conflict prevention and resolution
www.ridedrive.co.uk
Not that I work for the company. And Cadence (www.cadence.co.uk) offer similar too.
Edited by SVS on Wednesday 11th June 20:47
Actually, at the price that's one half-day... I'd hand back your Observer's badges 
While I could possibly cover all those criteria in a half day, I'd doubt that any client would be competent in any (let alone all).
Seriously though, do you think rigid adherence to the IAM strictures of how things should be done perhaps holds back the rate at which learning occurs? I tend to work on results rather than methods - rather than delivering to a system, getting someone to link correctly between what they observe and what they need to do to be safe is a relatively easy thing to engender.
While I could possibly cover all those criteria in a half day, I'd doubt that any client would be competent in any (let alone all).Seriously though, do you think rigid adherence to the IAM strictures of how things should be done perhaps holds back the rate at which learning occurs? I tend to work on results rather than methods - rather than delivering to a system, getting someone to link correctly between what they observe and what they need to do to be safe is a relatively easy thing to engender.
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