The golden rule
Discussion
So I've often heard that the 'Golden rule' is to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, on your own side of the road.
Yesterday, driving on a fairly wide countryside road ('B-road-ish') I came round a smooth well-cambered corner at around 40 mph. The surface was damp from recent rain with some gravel in the centre of the road, and a hedge obscured a clear sight of the next section of road. As I closed in on the exit of the corner, with steady lock applied, I saw a horse with rider and a second person alongside on my side of the road heading in the 'correct' direction (away from me). I released the accelerator and depressed the brake pedal firmly. Eased off the steering lock as the weight transfer took place but no wheels locked and the ABS wasn't triggered. Another car was approaching from the other direction so I pressured the brake pedal down firmer and firmer. I pulled the car to a halt around 2 to 3 car lengths from the rear of the horse. I then waited for the other car to pass in the opposite direction, while I stayed still to allow a larger gap between the horse and my car, plus put my hazards on for any following cars to see me.
Thing is, when I pulled to a halt, the horse still tossed its head and got a little jumpy, as it must have seen me braking (it had no blinkers).
I was a little annoyed (later, thinking about it) as none of the people or the horse had any luminescent clothing and all were wearing dark colours so it was harder to see them.
As I passed the horse I got a nasty glare from the rider and the other person with the horse. Did I do anything wrong? Do we assume that just because we stop, we won't cause an accident? My car isn't particularly noisy (Pug 306 HDi), so what if the car was louder? Would the horse have bolted? Would it have been my fault if it had?
Yesterday, driving on a fairly wide countryside road ('B-road-ish') I came round a smooth well-cambered corner at around 40 mph. The surface was damp from recent rain with some gravel in the centre of the road, and a hedge obscured a clear sight of the next section of road. As I closed in on the exit of the corner, with steady lock applied, I saw a horse with rider and a second person alongside on my side of the road heading in the 'correct' direction (away from me). I released the accelerator and depressed the brake pedal firmly. Eased off the steering lock as the weight transfer took place but no wheels locked and the ABS wasn't triggered. Another car was approaching from the other direction so I pressured the brake pedal down firmer and firmer. I pulled the car to a halt around 2 to 3 car lengths from the rear of the horse. I then waited for the other car to pass in the opposite direction, while I stayed still to allow a larger gap between the horse and my car, plus put my hazards on for any following cars to see me.
Thing is, when I pulled to a halt, the horse still tossed its head and got a little jumpy, as it must have seen me braking (it had no blinkers).
I was a little annoyed (later, thinking about it) as none of the people or the horse had any luminescent clothing and all were wearing dark colours so it was harder to see them.
As I passed the horse I got a nasty glare from the rider and the other person with the horse. Did I do anything wrong? Do we assume that just because we stop, we won't cause an accident? My car isn't particularly noisy (Pug 306 HDi), so what if the car was louder? Would the horse have bolted? Would it have been my fault if it had?
Depends on what is ('B-road-ish')?
On some of our narrow B roads, you need to be able to stop on HALF of the road you can see....to allow for incoming traffic.
Another 'Observation'...were there no signs to warn of horse riders on the road?
And a question...I was told sometime in the distant past that, if you MUST use the horn anywhere near horses, it is better to use two short blasts rather than one blast...as the horse is less surprised by the second blast?
Or is that just when my wife calls me?
BOF
On some of our narrow B roads, you need to be able to stop on HALF of the road you can see....to allow for incoming traffic.
Another 'Observation'...were there no signs to warn of horse riders on the road?
And a question...I was told sometime in the distant past that, if you MUST use the horn anywhere near horses, it is better to use two short blasts rather than one blast...as the horse is less surprised by the second blast?
Or is that just when my wife calls me?
BOF
BOF said:
Depends on what is ('B-road-ish')?
On some of our narrow B roads, you need to be able to stop on HALF of the road you can see....to allow for incoming traffic.
Another 'Observation'...were there no signs to warn of horse riders on the road?
And a question...I was told sometime in the distant past that, if you MUST use the horn anywhere near horses, it is better to use two short blasts rather than one blast...as the horse is less surprised by the second blast?
BOF
I'm not at all sure that one or two, short or long blasts are really what we want when using the horn near horses, or indeed in low speed situations generally, but admittedly it seems difficult to do anything else with some modern cars. Quite often the horn is operated by pressing or squeezing some part of the steering wheel spokes, and I find it takes a very firm press to make them work at all, which means you tend to get a loud note, rather than the short brief toot that would be more suitable to the occasion.On some of our narrow B roads, you need to be able to stop on HALF of the road you can see....to allow for incoming traffic.
Another 'Observation'...were there no signs to warn of horse riders on the road?
And a question...I was told sometime in the distant past that, if you MUST use the horn anywhere near horses, it is better to use two short blasts rather than one blast...as the horse is less surprised by the second blast?
BOF
Although it is now a long out-dated system, I liked the one on the Jaguars of the 1960s, where they had a semi-circular horn ring within the steering wheel. This made it an easy matter to produce a very short quiet toot by bouncing a hand lightly on the horn ring, or produce a longer and louder note by pressing and holding it.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
As a rider myself, it never ceases to amaze me just how unaware of vehicles many riders are and how often they fail to wave a thank you to traffic that slows down for them. There is some excuse for children who are too young to drive and might not appreciate a driver's viewpoint but even license holding adults seem oblivious to the likelihood of cars appearing around blind bends on country roads.
The position is not helped by the British Horse Society which recommends (or at least used to, it's a while since I checked) that riders go two abreast to force vehicles to slow right down to get past. That might be OK on a straight road with good visibility but it's madness on a blind bend. I see that the new Highway Code recommends single file.
As for using the horn, that really is a bad idea anywhere near horses. Horses will, and often do, spook at things that humans are unaware of, such as an old plastic bag in the verge. My wife once found herself in the middle of the road when a garden sprinkler started up on the other side of the hedge she was riding past.
Finally, the other thing to keep in mind is that horses weigh around half a ton and, should you hit one at any speed, it's likely to come through your windscreen ...
The position is not helped by the British Horse Society which recommends (or at least used to, it's a while since I checked) that riders go two abreast to force vehicles to slow right down to get past. That might be OK on a straight road with good visibility but it's madness on a blind bend. I see that the new Highway Code recommends single file.
As for using the horn, that really is a bad idea anywhere near horses. Horses will, and often do, spook at things that humans are unaware of, such as an old plastic bag in the verge. My wife once found herself in the middle of the road when a garden sprinkler started up on the other side of the hedge she was riding past.
Finally, the other thing to keep in mind is that horses weigh around half a ton and, should you hit one at any speed, it's likely to come through your windscreen ...
By B-road-ish, you could safely pass another car but the road itself had no centre lines and you'd need to slow to pass a milk lorry or tractor but would be able to get past.
I would say the road is a little larger than the ones I usually see horses on and I there were no signs for stables or anything on the road.
I was pretty sure the moment I saw the horse I could stop in time.
I didn't touch the horn as I was pretty sure the person walking along with the horse was aware of me and using my horn didn't see to be of any benefit.
One thing I did wonder: If the horse had bolted and thrown off the rider and I had been driving alone (I did have two passengers), could I have ended up with any blame when as far as I can see, I did nothing wrong?
I would say the road is a little larger than the ones I usually see horses on and I there were no signs for stables or anything on the road.
I was pretty sure the moment I saw the horse I could stop in time.
I didn't touch the horn as I was pretty sure the person walking along with the horse was aware of me and using my horn didn't see to be of any benefit.
One thing I did wonder: If the horse had bolted and thrown off the rider and I had been driving alone (I did have two passengers), could I have ended up with any blame when as far as I can see, I did nothing wrong?
As a rider I would say you did exactly right. Several car lenghts is a safe distance if you stop behind a horse. I would also repeat not to use your horn at all. I experienced people doing this and the results on some horses have been more than worrying.
I would have happily acknowledged your actions with thanks.
Dont forget also to allow adequate distance and sensible speed when overtaking a horse. Try and imagine where the rear hooves will be if it turns sideways and kicks out.
Unfortunately there are quite a few riders and horses out there who dont really have the skill or temperament for traffic but who are obliged to use some roads just for access to where they would be safe(r)...
I would have happily acknowledged your actions with thanks.
Dont forget also to allow adequate distance and sensible speed when overtaking a horse. Try and imagine where the rear hooves will be if it turns sideways and kicks out.
Unfortunately there are quite a few riders and horses out there who dont really have the skill or temperament for traffic but who are obliged to use some roads just for access to where they would be safe(r)...
I'm not really a fan of horses (I prefer knowing how my 'vehicle' will react when I do something 
) but I do cycle so I can understand to some extent the problems riders face. I do sometimes wonder whether they consider what roads they're using, the situation would be a lot worse if they'd met a milk lorry coming towards them. Still, I suppose they're not as bad as the 'average' car driver.
) but I do cycle so I can understand to some extent the problems riders face. I do sometimes wonder whether they consider what roads they're using, the situation would be a lot worse if they'd met a milk lorry coming towards them. Still, I suppose they're not as bad as the 'average' car driver.Edited by leon_t on Tuesday 6th May 11:17
leon_t said:
As I passed the horse I got a nasty glare from the rider and the other person with the horse. Did I do anything wrong?
You dealt with the hazard - that's your bit of the job done.Ignore the rude horse people. They were probably just chatting away as they meandered down the road.
I'm surprised there is no training to desensitize horses to life around them on the public highway, or is there?
(PS I'm not a horse hater - I've followed a few really fit pony girls......)
i cant see that the OP did anything wrong, you slowed enough in plently of time & it appears with no drama from the post.
horsey people sound like the typical horsey people who get horsey people a bad name. just because their pet is too big to walk in the park they think it makes them special. i know not all horsey people are like this, as evidenced in this thread but it is the minority you tend to remember isnt it?
as an aside i hate people who take horses which are obviously terrified of traffic on the roads. as far as im concerned that cruelity & the RSPCA (or similar) should get them banned from keeping animals.
horsey people sound like the typical horsey people who get horsey people a bad name. just because their pet is too big to walk in the park they think it makes them special. i know not all horsey people are like this, as evidenced in this thread but it is the minority you tend to remember isnt it?
as an aside i hate people who take horses which are obviously terrified of traffic on the roads. as far as im concerned that cruelity & the RSPCA (or similar) should get them banned from keeping animals.
Just to confirm what the Highway Code says on the subject (and as quoted on the British Horse Society website):
Page 19 Rule 53
Before riding off or turning, look behind you to make sure it is safe, then give a clear arm signal.
When riding on the road you should
•Keep to the left
•Keep both hands on the reins unless you are signalling
•Keep both feet in the stirrups
•Not carry another person
•Not carry anything which might affect your balance or get tangled up with the reins
•Keep a horse you are leading to your left
•Move in the direction of the traffic flow in a one-way street
Never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.
The last point is clearly the relevant one in this example, albeit it's a "should" rather than a "must".
Page 19 Rule 53
Before riding off or turning, look behind you to make sure it is safe, then give a clear arm signal.
When riding on the road you should
•Keep to the left
•Keep both hands on the reins unless you are signalling
•Keep both feet in the stirrups
•Not carry another person
•Not carry anything which might affect your balance or get tangled up with the reins
•Keep a horse you are leading to your left
•Move in the direction of the traffic flow in a one-way street
Never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.
The last point is clearly the relevant one in this example, albeit it's a "should" rather than a "must".
Vaux said:
leon_t said:
As I passed the horse I got a nasty glare from the rider and the other person with the horse. Did I do anything wrong?
You dealt with the hazard - that's your bit of the job done.Ignore the rude horse people. They were probably just chatting away as they meandered down the road.
I'm surprised there is no training to desensitize horses to life around them on the public highway, or is there?
(PS I'm not a horse hater - I've followed a few really fit pony girls......)
leon_t said:
As I passed the horse I got a nasty glare from the rider and the other person with the horse. Did I do anything wrong?
Don't worry about it; I live in an area with lots of horses and I often find this problem. Most horse riders are very sympathetic and considerate; but for a lot of them any car that is heard to be braking, or that needs to brake heavily, is driven by a dangerous idiot (which of course is not the case).My current gripe is when I slow right down to pass a horse, make eye contact and wave and the horse rider just stares at me like I'm some sort of scum. I used to ride myself, so I understand what it's like, but I was always very appreciative when a car went down to 5-10mph to pass me.
cornishgirl said:
When you ride a horse you generally are higher than a car so it's very difficult not to look down your nose at the driver. Being 5ft2 its a nice change to be able to look down on people even if only for a while.
31, 5'2" and access to a newish Porker.And I bet you have a good seat too!
See, I wouldn't mind being treated badly by that kind of Pony Girl.
leon_t said:
Yesterday, driving on a fairly wide countryside road ('B-road-ish') I came round a smooth well-cambered corner at around 40 mph. The surface was damp from recent rain with some gravel in the centre of the road, and a hedge obscured a clear sight of the next section of road. As I closed in on the exit of the corner, with steady lock applied, I saw a horse with rider and a second person alongside on my side of the road heading in the 'correct' direction (away from me). I released the accelerator and depressed the brake pedal firmly. Eased off the steering lock as the weight transfer took place but no wheels locked and the ABS wasn't triggered. Another car was approaching from the other direction so I pressured the brake pedal down firmer and firmer. I pulled the car to a halt around 2 to 3 car lengths from the rear of the horse. I then waited for the other car to pass in the opposite direction, while I stayed still to allow a larger gap between the horse and my car, plus put my hazards on for any following cars to see me.
Are you trying to say you were driving around a corner when you had to stop for a horse?SM
I think the problem here is a law which allows an obsolete mode of transport doing potentially 25% the speed you legally can, to still be using the road. Is it tradition? By general relativity it's not safe, it's not a majority rule (in this supposed democracy) and the bloody things are designed for cross-country anyway. Use it for how it was designed and get off the roads! Lest you dare give me a dirty look for crawling past at 30 or I'll shoot the rider and free the horse from it's slavey!
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 29th May 12:24
mattikake said:
I think the problem here is a law which allows an obsolete mode of transport doing potentially 25% the speed you legally can, to still be using the road. Is it tradition? By general relativity it's not safe, it's not a majority rule (in this supposed democracy) and the bloody things are designed for cross-country anyway. Use it for how it was designed and get off the roads! Lest you dare give me a dirty look for crawling past at 30 or I'll shoot the f
ker and free the horse from it's misery!
If people just used things for their primary design purpose then by that logic it would also outrule 4x4sker and free the horse from it's misery! Mind you, I'd be in support of that as I'm sick of getting stuck behind the great big lumbering things on country lanes. At least one can overtake a horse!I think you did the right thing also, however you could of possibly reduced your speed a little more just to give yourself a little more time and due to wetness. As far as horses are concerned, they poo on roads and arent insured so should not be allowed to use them on the road, plus they do not pay roadtax with all that methane they put out damaging the ozone .
Back to seriousness, if you feel that you made an accurate assessment of the situation provided to you and remembered that your chances of stopping are up to four times higher in the rain dependent on conditions of brakes. You did fine and no one was hurt.
. Back to seriousness, if you feel that you made an accurate assessment of the situation provided to you and remembered that your chances of stopping are up to four times higher in the rain dependent on conditions of brakes. You did fine and no one was hurt.
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