New 911 driver

[AdamAID]

Hi All,

I have done a reasonable amount of reading / searching on this forum, but apologies if this has already been answered.

Basically I have just bought a 911 and its my first performance car.

I'd like to become a better road driver, so from other posts it looks like my best bet is either:

a) RideDrive or
b) IAM / RoSPA (basically the same it seems)

followed by some more individual training along using of the recommended guys like Don Palmer.

With regards to a) & b) above, is there anything to choose between them?

Is there a FAQ out there with a recommended route for new drivers of performance cars?

Thanks,
Adam

[SamHH]

I've done the IAM test but don't have any experience of RideDrive so can't give an in depth comparison, but the two things are different in concept.

RideDrive is a business that offers driving tuition with professional instructors, whereas IAM and ROADAR are road safety charities that are run by volunteers. I guess that RideDrive will tailor their service to whatever you say you want to learn; with the IAM, the tuition is aimed at getting you to the necessary standard to pass their test. To join either charity costs, I think, around £100, and for this you get as many 'observed drives' as you require to reach that standard; half a day with RideDrive costs £130.

RideDrive has more in common with Don Palmer, Cadence and other professionals than it does with IAM and ROADAR. They are all linked however by basing their teaching on the police 'System of Car Control'.

As to what you should do, I guess it depends what you're after. The two charities are good value, but if you're willing to spend the money you might find that professional instruction where there's more of a 'business-client' relationship is more to your liking.

[SVS]

Hi Adam,

I've experience of all (!) the aforementioned trainers. My strong advice would always be to choose a professional trainer such as RideDrive, Cadence or Clive Jones.

The IAM and RoADAR are both worthwhile. (Also, it's worth getting an IAM certificate for the membership benefits alone.)

However, IAM and RoADAR instructors are non-professional volunteers. (I used to be one myself.) Whereas RideDrive, Cadance or someone like Clive Jones will provide you with world-class tuition: www.hpc.org.uk/guestjoin.html

If you choose RideDrive, then from personal experience I most recommend taking one of their accredited courses:
www.ridedrive.co.uk/do-ocn-t02cn.htm
or even better still: www.ridedrive.co.uk/do-ocn-t03cn.htm

I did the Level 3 course on my Ducati and it was outstanding (I've done car courses with them too.) It's one of the best things you can do with your 911 - very rewarding and you'll get so much more out of the Porsche.

I hope this helps, but don't hesitate to post any queries.

Enjoy!

Edited by SVS on Thursday 3rd April 19:52

[WhoseGeneration]

AdamAID said:

Hi All,

I have done a reasonable amount of reading / searching on this forum, but apologies if this has already been answered.

Basically I have just bought a 911 and its my first performance car.

I'd like to become a better road driver, so from other posts it looks like my best bet is either:

a) RideDrive or
b) IAM / RoSPA (basically the same it seems)

followed by some more individual training along using of the recommended guys like Don Palmer.

With regards to a) & b) above, is there anything to choose between them?

Is there a FAQ out there with a recommended route for new drivers of performance cars?

Thanks,
Adam

IAM, with the right Observer, first.
Then, individual tuition.

[p1esk]

WhoseGeneration said:

AdamAID said:

Hi All,

I have done a reasonable amount of reading / searching on this forum, but apologies if this has already been answered.

Basically I have just bought a 911 and its my first performance car.

I'd like to become a better road driver, so from other posts it looks like my best bet is either:

a) RideDrive or
b) IAM / RoSPA (basically the same it seems)

followed by some more individual training along using of the recommended guys like Don Palmer.

With regards to a) & b) above, is there anything to choose between them?

Is there a FAQ out there with a recommended route for new drivers of performance cars?

Thanks,
Adam

IAM, with the right Observer, first.
Then, individual tuition.

Maybe, but it depends on what stage the OP is already at.

It might be worth going the IAM route first and then going to RideDrive or Cadence. On the other hand the IAM option could be by-passed, saving some time, and a small amount of money, without detriment.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[sjmmarsh]

I can thoroughly recommend Cadence (nr Grantham, but can do other locations). A half day with Hugh will give you lots of constructive pointers on how you can make swift progress safely and they do longer courses where you can hone other skills off road.

Steve

[SVS]

Why take amateur tuition if you can afford world-class professional training?

I have to agree with p1esk and disagree with Whosegeneration.

Firstly, IAM Observers can vary tremendously in quality. Whereas people like Ride Drive, Cadence and Clive Jones offer superb tuition. First impressions count. How is someone’s first impression of advanced driving going to differ from the IAM to Ride Drive/Cadence?

Secondly, Adam’s not only bought a Porsche, but a 911. This has particular handling characteristics. Lift-off oversteer, anyone? A professional such as RideDrive or Cadence will be able to offer profound and essential advice.

Thirdly, the IAM is excellent value for the masses. However, is the price of training likely to be an issue for a Porsche owner? A Porsche driver who’s investing in training ought to get the best; that means expert professional tuition.

In advanced driving, there’s often a paradigm that everyone should start with the IAM (then go up the ladder to RoADAR and eventually achieve the dizzy heights of High Performance Club membership). It’s time to break this paradigm and start thinking more flexibly about people’s individual needs.

I used to be heavily involved in the IAM from local to Regional level. It’s a great organisation, offering an intro to advanced driving at terrific value for money. However, if someone can afford it, I would always advise starting with a professional instructor like Ride Drive, Cadence or Clive Jones.

Lastly, Adam's just bought a Porsche. How realistic is it that he’s bought a Porsche to stick to 60-70mph? Then think about some IAM Observers you know and what they would say …

[SamHH]

SVS said:

Why take amateur tuition if you can afford world-class professional training?

Why not do both? The main reason I can think of not to do both is if you are very short on spare time.

SVS said:

Secondly, Adam’s not only bought a Porsche, but a 911. This has particular handling characteristics. Lift-off oversteer, anyone? A professional such as RideDrive or Cadence will be able to offer profound and essential advice.

I agree that an IAM observer is less likely than a professional instructor to have knowledge of the handling nuances of any given vehicle. However, I'm not sure that this is of vital importance. The fundamentals of what advanced driving is about apply to almost all cars. Also, if we're talking about road driving, I'm sceptical about whether any instructor can help with learning about practical skills like controlling lift-off oversteer.

SVS said:

Thirdly, the IAM is excellent value for the masses. However, is the price of training likely to be an issue for a Porsche owner? A Porsche driver who’s investing in training ought to get the best; that means expert professional tuition.

I'm not going to speculate on someone's finances on the basis of what car they own. However, if we're talking about value for money, then I would say that for most people spending £100 on doing one of the advanced driving tests and then, say, £500 on professional instruction will get you to a higher standard than spending £600 pounds on professional instruction alone.

SVS said:

Lastly, Adam's just bought a Porsche. How realistic is it that he’s bought a Porsche to stick to 60-70mph? Then think about some IAM Observers you know and what they would say …

Advanced driving skills apply every bit as much at speeds not in excess of the speed limit as they do at speeds in excess of the speed limit.

I'm not arguing that you should definitely take one of the advanced driving tests first, but I disagree with some of your arguments about why you shouldn't. I agree that given a limitless supply of money the professional instruction route would be preferable, but no-one has that luxury.

[SVS]

Hi SamHH,

You make some very good points. I agree that there's certainly nothing wrong with doing both.

However, I know at least a couple of people who dipped their toe into advanced driving via the IAM/RoSPA route and had bad experiences. In both cases, it put them off advanced driving for life. Even on this forum, posts crop up by people disatified with their IAM Observer. Why risk putting someone off advanced driving?

In contrast, everyone comes back with glowing reports of Cadence, RideDrive and Clive Jones.

I agree that the IAM can be an ideal foundation. Perhaps the IAM Skill for Life Fast Track is the best starting place: www.iam.org.uk/eshop/membershipshop/sflft.htm

Edited by SVS on Saturday 5th April 19:09

[waremark]

In spite of being an IAM Observer myself, I am with SVS on this. You get vastly better value for your time from a top class professional instructor, and at £250 to £325 per day it really is not expensive for the purchaser of an expensive car. If value for money does matter more than value for time, then of course you can get a lot of worthwhile development out of the charitable organisations; when making contact with a local group ask if they have any observers with experience or enthusiasm for high performance cars and motoring. Some will be able to allocate a suitable observer.

Perhaps consider the much smaller but more performance oriented Club Driving, a non-commercial club offering mentoring. Club Driving was set up by Mark Kendrick of Bespoke Driver Training, another top professional instructor to consider alonside those already recommended. Mark is based (I think) in the Birmingham area.

http://www.clubdriving.co.uk/index.html

[boxsey]

You don't say which type of 911 you have but in my experience these cars are no more difficult to drive than any other car at normal road speeds. All you have to remember is that less right foot input is required than for a run of the mill saloon or hatchback. IMO You should be seeking instruction if you want to improve your driving skills in general and not your 911 skills. If this is the case, an IAM instructor can teach you these skills. However an IAM instructor is not going to teach you hot to drive at speeds above the legal limits just because it is a performance car because they're not allowed to do that.

If you want to learn and get more comfortable with what a 911 is capable of your instruction needs to be track based IMO. In addition to some of the excellent instructors mentioned above you could try 'Driver Development program' who run days at the Pro-drive test facility (high speed, handling and low-grip circuits). Or simply go on a track day and hire an instructor while you're there (or one of the 911 specialists in advance) and experience what these cars can do in a safe environment. I think you will be truly amazed at how much grip they have.