Today's arcane AD question...thumbs
Discussion
Just by chance I have seen 3 learners in the last day or so that have all had their thumbs way outside the wheel.
I don't mean just "not inside", but pointing radially away from the centre of the wheel alongside the first finger.
This turns their hands out and their elbows in, looks extremely uncomfortable and means they are holding the wheel between fingers and palm. The thumb is out of the way.
Two were having lessons as well, so it looked like they were being taught that way.
Is that de-rigeur these days? I have my thumbs along the circumference of the wheel, so they are not inside, but my thumb is actively used in the holding of the wheel!
Bert
I don't mean just "not inside", but pointing radially away from the centre of the wheel alongside the first finger.
This turns their hands out and their elbows in, looks extremely uncomfortable and means they are holding the wheel between fingers and palm. The thumb is out of the way.
Two were having lessons as well, so it looked like they were being taught that way.
Is that de-rigeur these days? I have my thumbs along the circumference of the wheel, so they are not inside, but my thumb is actively used in the holding of the wheel!
Bert
I doubt many driving instructors would go as far as telling their students what to do with their thumbs. More likely they have only been told to push/pull, and developed their own grip on the wheel.
"That was a good lesson today Bob, well you did mount the kerb a few times, and there were the two incidents where you drove on the wrong side of the road, and you did stall 8 times and hit that lamp-post when reversing, and you did do the whole lesson in 4th gear and you did forget to release the handbrake for an hour... But what I really wanted to talk to you about is the position of your thumbs..."
"That was a good lesson today Bob, well you did mount the kerb a few times, and there were the two incidents where you drove on the wrong side of the road, and you did stall 8 times and hit that lamp-post when reversing, and you did do the whole lesson in 4th gear and you did forget to release the handbrake for an hour... But what I really wanted to talk to you about is the position of your thumbs..."
rasputin said:
I doubt many driving instructors would go as far as telling their students what to do with their thumbs. More likely they have only been told to push/pull, and developed their own grip on the wheel.
"That was a good lesson today Bob, well you did mount the kerb a few times, and there were the two incidents where you drove on the wrong side of the road, and you did stall 8 times and hit that lamp-post when reversing, and you did do the whole lesson in 4th gear and you did forget to release the handbrake for an hour... But what I really wanted to talk to you about is the position of your thumbs..."
Excellent point. However, they would not put their thumbs there naturally, so clearly it came about somehow. It might explain the driving on the wrong side of the road!"That was a good lesson today Bob, well you did mount the kerb a few times, and there were the two incidents where you drove on the wrong side of the road, and you did stall 8 times and hit that lamp-post when reversing, and you did do the whole lesson in 4th gear and you did forget to release the handbrake for an hour... But what I really wanted to talk to you about is the position of your thumbs..."
Bert
We had an IAM session a few years ago with 24 staff from the local Hospital...one Surgeon told us that it was routine to check the thumbs of crash victims.
It had been found that, if driver was unconscious or anaesthetic was given, damage to thumbs might go un noticed for days...making the setting more difficult.
Our Group teach not having the thumbs wrapped round the wheel, just on the rim (always did this, but Surgeons comment reinforced the idea).
BOF
It had been found that, if driver was unconscious or anaesthetic was given, damage to thumbs might go un noticed for days...making the setting more difficult.
Our Group teach not having the thumbs wrapped round the wheel, just on the rim (always did this, but Surgeons comment reinforced the idea).
BOF
BOF said:
We had an IAM session a few years ago with 24 staff from the local Hospital...one Surgeon told us that it was routine to check the thumbs of crash victims.
It had been found that, if driver was unconscious or anaesthetic was given, damage to thumbs might go un noticed for days...making the setting more difficult.
Our Group teach not having the thumbs wrapped round the wheel, just on the rim (always did this, but Surgeons comment reinforced the idea).
BOF
Yep, that's where I'm at, but the thumbs I saw were over the rim alongside the first finger.It had been found that, if driver was unconscious or anaesthetic was given, damage to thumbs might go un noticed for days...making the setting more difficult.
Our Group teach not having the thumbs wrapped round the wheel, just on the rim (always did this, but Surgeons comment reinforced the idea).
BOF
Bert
Having been taught the 'thumbs out' method at Hendon, I was interested to learn when I started taking motorsport-type instruction that the thumbs should stay inside the wheel at all times, to aid steering control and feel. Horses for courses I suppose.
When learning the Police method the example I was given was that of running over a bicycle and having the wheel wrestled from me by the impact, thereby damaging my thumbs. Bit of a silly example I thought, but I understood the point. I think thumbs-in is by far the best method for peformance or track driving, but for safe road driving, thumbs-out is the way...
When learning the Police method the example I was given was that of running over a bicycle and having the wheel wrestled from me by the impact, thereby damaging my thumbs. Bit of a silly example I thought, but I understood the point. I think thumbs-in is by far the best method for peformance or track driving, but for safe road driving, thumbs-out is the way...
my understanding is that thumbs out means thumbs along the the circumference rather than thumbs wrapped inside. That gets good grip and control without having the thumbs inside to get mashed in a crash.
What I saw was the wheel being held by 4 fingers and the palm, with the elbows twisted in towards the body to keep the thumbs right out of the way. Not good for control of the wheel at all.
Bert
What I saw was the wheel being held by 4 fingers and the palm, with the elbows twisted in towards the body to keep the thumbs right out of the way. Not good for control of the wheel at all.
Bert
WilliBetz said:
Would thumbs-out reduce the likelihood or severity of injury if the driver's airbag deployed?
I seem to recall some US research that indicated a lower hold (say 4 and 8 o'clock) may do likewise...
I would suspect that holding the wheel at 4 and 8 o'clock would significantly increase the chances of the airbag deploying in the first place...I seem to recall some US research that indicated a lower hold (say 4 and 8 o'clock) may do likewise...
As a driving instructor I now teach my pupils to drive at quarter to 3 rather than 10 to 2 because of the airbag. Smaller european airbags deploy differently to larger "federal" US airbags anyway, but 10 to 2 is more likely to result in a broken risk from an airbag deployment along with burns to the inner wrists.
The only occasion I drive with no thumbs on the wheel is when I'm off-road, catching a wheel in a rut could cause th wheel to spin and brake you thumbs on the spokes. On road there is no advantage whatsoever and it could be seen as a lack of proper control.
AFAIK Police drivers are taught to drive at 8 and 4 to reduce fatigue, it has a marginal effect on reducing control but typically these are not the worst of drivers and have better than average arm-strength.
The only occasion I drive with no thumbs on the wheel is when I'm off-road, catching a wheel in a rut could cause th wheel to spin and brake you thumbs on the spokes. On road there is no advantage whatsoever and it could be seen as a lack of proper control.
AFAIK Police drivers are taught to drive at 8 and 4 to reduce fatigue, it has a marginal effect on reducing control but typically these are not the worst of drivers and have better than average arm-strength.
I was told to keep my thumb out of the way as the wheel spokes might hurt me if I crashed. So I did this for my test, then changed to a more comfortable grip afterwards.
Remember that the driving test is all about SHOWING that you are doing the right thing, as well as doing it. This funny hand position is probably an extension of that. You dont just have to check your mirrors, you have to blatently move your head so the examiner can see your checking them.
Remember that the driving test is all about SHOWING that you are doing the right thing, as well as doing it. This funny hand position is probably an extension of that. You dont just have to check your mirrors, you have to blatently move your head so the examiner can see your checking them.
Holst said:
I was told to keep my thumb out of the way as the wheel spokes might hurt me if I crashed. So I did this for my test, then changed to a more comfortable grip afterwards.
Remember that the driving test is all about SHOWING that you are doing the right thing, as well as doing it. This funny hand position is probably an extension of that. You dont just have to check your mirrors, you have to blatently move your head so the examiner can see your checking them.
Indeed, but the topic is not really about keeping your thumbs out of the way. It's about an extreme position with the thumbs pushed right up against the first finger which turns the elbows in and means that there is no use of prehensile grip at all.Remember that the driving test is all about SHOWING that you are doing the right thing, as well as doing it. This funny hand position is probably an extension of that. You dont just have to check your mirrors, you have to blatently move your head so the examiner can see your checking them.
This is detrimental to sterring control and not a good thing to do!
BErt
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