The unsolvable problem

[Get Karter]

Whilst thinking about the lovely succint old put-down phrase:-

"The average man thinks he isn't."

It came to me. THAT is the problem with drivers..and even more especially drivers of performance cars who would refer to themselves as 'petrolheads'.

Thus, my alteration of the old phrase would simply be:-

"The average driver thinks he isn't"

Is this the real unsolvable problem barring the way to fewer accidents?

[Jungles]

The "guru driver" syndrome. Yes, that is a big attitudinal problem which afflicts almost everyone, including driving instructors, police/ambulance/fire officers, motorsport competitors, and most noticeably the "boy racer" fraternity.

Heck, it afflicts me too.

The only permanent solution seems to be collisions themselves. Once someone experiences a collision caused by their actions (or lack thereof), then the driver may wake up to the fact that he/she is not infallible. Problem with that is the tendency for some people to flatly reject any suggestions of their ineptitude.

Edited by Jungles on Friday 4th January 11:27

[Lurker]

A lack of humility is not restricted to drivers - in my experience people generally have an optimistic self-esteem.

[Jungles]

It's called "optimism bias".

But the effect is particularly pronounced when it comes to driving, especially male drivers.

[WeirdNeville]

Thats why so much of advanced driving comes down to attitude rather than simple techniques.

It's all very well being the smoothest driver on the roads, but if you do not accept that you can make mistakes and learn from them, then there's no point.

I think in my case it comes from a "debrief" after each near miss or potential problem. What went wrong, why and how can I prevent myself from making the same or similar mistakes in the future.

It's also about the evaluation of the gap between real and perceived ability. About two weeks after my advanced (well, response) driving course I was getting cocky and I spun my car on a slip road. In a way I'm very glad I have a car that keeps me honest and punishes mistakes. It prevents you getting ahead of yourself, and keeps the ego in check!

[WhoseGeneration]

Lurker said:

A lack of humility is not restricted to drivers - in my experience people generally have an optimistic self-esteem.

Which might help to explain the progress of our Species.
From it's earliest times.
"You don't wanna try that".
"Of course you can't split an atom".
Etc, etc.

[BOF]

Or...

"I told Wilbur Wright...and I told Orville Wright...that thing will never get off the ground"


BOF.

(Forget MY dream that the IAM Test will be, one day, the minimum level to get a driving license and that a significant percentage of 3500 lives a year will be saved)

[Get Karter]

This is about the tendency for average drivers to overestimate their ability............nothing to do with scientific or engineering accomplishments furthering the human race.

The point of my OP was this:- Driving standards will never improve because of this 'fact' (that no driver thinks they are bad, and most think they are good). So there is no perceived need to improve their driving.

BOF makes a sensible point on this in his 'dream'.

Edited by Get Karter on Friday 4th January 21:15

[Jungles]

WhoseGeneration said:

Lurker said:

A lack of humility is not restricted to drivers - in my experience people generally have an optimistic self-esteem.

Which might help to explain the progress of our Species.
From it's earliest times.
"You don't wanna try that".
"Of course you can't split an atom".
Etc, etc.

Wrong interpretation. We're talking about the tendency for people to believe that bad things will not happen to them, or are less likely to happen to them than others. In driving, people tend to believe such nonsense because they think their driving skill exceeds those of "other" drivers - complete boocks in 99% of cases.

The human race's desire to stretch the limits of our mental, physical, and scientific accomplishments have nothing to do with it.

Edited by Jungles on Saturday 5th January 00:14

[BertBert]

Get Karter said:

This is about the tendency for average drivers to overestimate their ability............nothing to do with scientific or engineering accomplishments furthering the human race.

The point of my OP was this:- Driving standards will never improve because of this 'fact' (that no driver thinks they are bad, and most think they are good). So there is no perceived need to improve their driving.

BOF makes a sensible point on this in his 'dream'.

And not turning it into a political debate, there is no promotion of (that pompus phrase) best practice in any area of driving or motoring other than a few lone people and organisations!

Imagine if better driving could be made desirable, cool, trendy etc.

Bert

[7db]

Most people have an above average number of legs.
Why shouldn't most drivers be better than the average driver?

[BOF]

Bert,

"Imagine if better driving could be made desirable, cool, trendy etc."

I will probably be excommunicated for this thought...but anyway...how about IAM condoms...Red for cars and green for bikers?

IAM logo on the packet...IPSGA on the rubber...Road'er could follow as the next step up for boasting in the pub?

BOF :-)

[ph123]

An average driver doesn't believe he needs to get out of the way.
An advanced driver needs to think twice about it.

[erdnase]

7db said:

Most people have an above average number of legs.

I had to think about that for a minute, but that's genius

[WhoseGeneration]

Jungles said:

Wrong interpretation. We're talking about the tendency for people to believe that bad things will not happen to them, or are less likely to happen to them than others.

Edited by Jungles on Saturday 5th January 00:14

Now, of course, I want drivers to be of the highest standard.
I merely like to expand to try to make others consider the specific within the whole.
Your comment above?.
So true.
Which again, is one reason for the success of our Species.
Otherwise who would have dared venture outside the cave?.
It's wired into our brain.
It helps ensure the survival of the Species as a whole, the individual not being of great importance.

[Jungles]

I would agree with you if we were talking about pursuits that benefit society as a whole.

However, driving like lunatics on public roads doesn't benefit society, unless as some kind of twisted Darwinian selection.

[WhoseGeneration]

Jungles said:

I would agree with you if we were talking about pursuits that benefit society as a whole.

However, driving like lunatics on public roads doesn't benefit society, unless as some kind of twisted Darwinian selection.

Not twisted, if I drive in a way that ensures my survival.
We do seem to have a Government which believes that all can be survivors and will legislate, across many areas, in that belief.
That is not logical.
For that means all must be subsumed to the ability of the most incapable.
There is no progress in that scenario.
Which explains much about our present situation.