Want to do Advanced Driving but don't know where to start.

[Jon944S2]

Hi I'm 19 and I own a soon to be modified Porsche. So I want to improve my driving so that I can:
1. drive the car properly
2. in general improve my driving skills
3. increase my driving enjoyment
4. get a well needed reduction in my insurance

I feel that the best way I can do this is by taking some sort of Advanced Driving tuition and maybe do another track day (although the only time I was on track was doing the parade laps for the Silverstone classic event which ended up like a track day really good fun to)

[waremark]

Well done for coming here.

Sounds like you need some good coaching in a hurry, and cost is not going to be the number 1 priority. That means going to one of the great professional coaches - they will help you get up the learning curve quicker than a much cheaper course from IAM, and will also help you enjoy your car safely. Personally I recommend Cadence. See this thread for contacts:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Whatever coaching you get, I cannot imagine that you will find cheap insurance for your new car!! You will be lucky to find people to insure it at any price.

[Jon944S2]

I've already got the car had it for a nearly a year now and love every second of and the looks I get from people my age who just have your 1.1 peugeots and so on.
You're right about the insurance not being cheap £6,800 and £12,500 are the only quotes I've had for it one is when it is modified.

[ipsg.glf]

You need the basics first and the most cost effective way of doing that is IAM.

[WeirdNeville]

I think that the IAM will be the only organisation that will be able to give you a qualification that will help bring your insurance down. The other driver training may well help in the long run, (because you'll be preserving your own no-claims) but I'd say the first step would be become an IAM member ASAP and focus on getting associate status. Ring around your proposed insurers first to see if it will actually be of any benefit whatosever. to me an inusrance quote of £12000 sounds like a "we don't want your business" quote....

[waremark]

Not many insurers would want 19 year olds with a modded Porsche! I suspect that will include most insurers who would otherwise offer discount for IAM membership.

I stand by my advice in the particular circumstances of this poster (young, fast car, vast insurance costs), to skip IAM and go straight to one of the top professionals. They will get him up the learning curve quicker than an IAM Observer, and have much more to contribute on a car specific basis. They will include suitable limit handling stuff at a proving ground, and he will probably have great fun.

So what mods are you proposing and why? (Long ago I had a 944 Turbo - great car).

[ipsg.glf]

I just don't think that someone who is setting out at the beginning of their AD career needs professional instruction at that stage.

Why pay £200 - £300 per day for instruction which will, in all probability, be completely forgotten in a few weeks. I think the IAM's drip-feed method over 6 - 8 weeks is the best way to start out.

[BertBert]

I think there might be some supplementary questions/work here!

You need to talk to a lot of insurance companies about how to bring the payments down to get your expectations sorted. My guess is that there will be little you can do as they want age and (no accident) experience. The ones that do a discount for IAM (for example) are extremely unlikely to be competetive on a modded 944. Don't get your hopes up too much here. Shop around

For your other objectives again you have plenty of options:

IAM
Professional coaching - road driving - lots of options
Professional coaching - car control/track/rally/drift/skidpan techniques
Self teaching - reading plus practice on roads, trackdays, airfield days
Peer help - friends, people from this forum, IAM observers etc

You'll need to answer questions of:
-how much money you want to spend over what period
-how much time you want to spend over what period
-what "level" you want to get to

HTH
Bert

Edited by BertBert on Tuesday 1st January 12:49

[Jon944S2]

waremark said:

Not many insurers would want 19 year olds with a modded Porsche! I suspect that will include most insurers who would otherwise offer discount for IAM membership.

I stand by my advice in the particular circumstances of this poster (young, fast car, vast insurance costs), to skip IAM and go straight to one of the top professionals. They will get him up the learning curve quicker than an IAM Observer, and have much more to contribute on a car specific basis. They will include suitable limit handling stuff at a proving ground, and he will probably have great fun.

So what mods are you proposing and why? (Long ago I had a 944 Turbo - great car).

The mods I'm proposing is a supercharger kit, GT3 Mk1 brakes and wheels, Kw V3 suspension, Decat pipe and 3.5" tailpipe, induction kit, and a 968 6 speed box.

[BOF]

ipsg.glf said:

I just don't think that someone who is setting out at the beginning of their AD career needs professional instruction at that stage.

Why pay £200 - £300 per day for instruction which will, in all probability, be completely forgotten in a few weeks. I think the IAM's drip-feed method over 6 - 8 weeks is the best way to start out.

Completely agree...without doing the 'O' levels you will have less understanding of the 'A' levels and less benefit from the cash you might spend on expensive individual tuition in future.

IAM then RoSPA then one of the specialist coaches mentioned...

BOF.

[waremark]

BOF said:

Completely agree...without doing the 'O' levels you will have less understanding of the 'A' levels and less benefit from the cash you might spend on expensive individual tuition in future.

IAM then RoSPA then one of the specialist coaches mentioned...

It's a question of whether you get your coaching for the O levels (young people, think GCSE's) from a top professional or from competent amateurs like those of us here who are observers. In my experience, if you can afford it, you get up the learning curve faster with a top professional - and for a guy who is spending so much on his car the top professional is still good value. Actually, he would probably get more value out of spending most of the money on his skills rather than on the car - at track days better driving skills make more difference than 100 bhp.

I also have bad experience of young people giving up on the IAM programme - regular sessions over a period of a couple of months often don't fit in with young peoples' lifestyles. Nor, for what it is worth, do the IAM's priorities of 'Safety first' have the same appeal as the professionals goal of (in many cases) 'Safety fast'.

Please don't think I am against IAM or Rospa training - far from it, I am an observer, but in this case I think the OP can do better.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. He knows what the choice is.

[BOF]

""Please don't think I am against IAM or Rospa training - far from it, I am an observer, but in this case I think the OP can do better.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. He knows what the choice is.""

No basic disagreement ... I have had very different reactions from young drivers... our Group Boss is HPC and I think a Porsche driver...we also have a few Observers who are quite 'progressive' drivers and we try to match the Associates with the Observers.

Guess it depends on the Group sometimes...

BOF.

[BertBert]

I am with Waremark on this one. It's about choosing what suits your aspirations, budget, time etc.

Certainly for me, the routine of my local IAM group didn't work out (pre-booked sunday am sessions two sundays a month) and at middle age, I have little time and am less cost sensitive. So I get my driver training by paying for it.

Horses for courses.

Bert

[Jon944S2]

I don't really mind how long it takes or really how much it costs as such I just feel I want to improve my driving. I think I might start of with the IAM or Rospa see how I get on then after that I will see what I think is best.

I'm not really as such, bothered about how much my insurance costs just so long as I can get insured, it'll come down eventually.

Sorry if some of what I type comes over a bit big headed and what not but I can't think of any other way of wording it.

Edited by Jon944S2 on Tuesday 1st January 21:41

[stefan1]

Jon

Which ever route you take, enjoy it. Best thing I (and I am sure many on this board) ever did - getting some training and learning to enjoy our cars more - especially as yours is a Porsche (I'm a fan!).

Have fun and remember there are loads of options for advanced training (and all good suggestions above), so whatever works for you. I'm still learning 18 years after my first course - and still got lots to learn!

Kind regards

Steve

[ipsg.glf]

Jon

Let us know when you have completed IAM/Rospa then we can better advise you of the next step and at the same time perhaps give you more information so that you make an educated choice for further tuition.

There are an awful lot of people masquerading as something they aren't and of a driving standard that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Have fun, though!

[Alex106]

Jon944S2 said:

waremark said:

Not many insurers would want 19 year olds with a modded Porsche! I suspect that will include most insurers who would otherwise offer discount for IAM membership.

I stand by my advice in the particular circumstances of this poster (young, fast car, vast insurance costs), to skip IAM and go straight to one of the top professionals. They will get him up the learning curve quicker than an IAM Observer, and have much more to contribute on a car specific basis. They will include suitable limit handling stuff at a proving ground, and he will probably have great fun.

So what mods are you proposing and why? (Long ago I had a 944 Turbo - great car).

The mods I'm proposing is a supercharger kit, GT3 Mk1 brakes and wheels, Kw V3 suspension, Decat pipe and 3.5" tailpipe, induction kit, and a 968 6 speed box.

Bit OTT for a nineteen year old in my opinion. I see too much power, too little experience. And cost of it all will be ridiculous

[Jon944S2]

That's fine by me I like to be different. I get to drive high performance cars on almost daily basis at work like 911s, M5, M3, Maseratis, Ferraris and so on. but I've decided that before going down the supercharger route improving my driving is top list of priority now.

Thanks for all the help so far anyway.

[DougBaker]

Since you are unlikely to be able to insure your car with a conventional company a conventional qualification such as the IAM test is unlikely to be any use in reducing your bills. Still worth doing, but it probably won't save you any money.

When I first insured my Caterham I was asked if I had done any "performance" driving courses. The fact that I had passed the IAM test made no difference to the quote, had I done even a half day with cadence I could have had a 10% discount.

I would go straight for the best professional training you can afford. The HPC http://www.hpc.org.uk/ looks like an ideal option and is the next upgrade I plan for my driving/car.

[WilliBetz]

Jon944S2 said:

waremark said:

Not many insurers would want 19 year olds with a modded Porsche! I suspect that will include most insurers who would otherwise offer discount for IAM membership.

I stand by my advice in the particular circumstances of this poster (young, fast car, vast insurance costs), to skip IAM and go straight to one of the top professionals. They will get him up the learning curve quicker than an IAM Observer, and have much more to contribute on a car specific basis. They will include suitable limit handling stuff at a proving ground, and he will probably have great fun.

So what mods are you proposing and why? (Long ago I had a 944 Turbo - great car).

The mods I'm proposing is a supercharger kit, GT3 Mk1 brakes and wheels, Kw V3 suspension, Decat pipe and 3.5" tailpipe, induction kit, and a 968 6 speed box.

You seem to have put a fair amount of thought into the modifications, none of which will be cheap to fit or to maintain (sorry to be negative, but I don't think a supercharged 944S2 is likely to be particularly reliable, nor usable on circuit unless you address the inherent oil starvation issues).

If you spend your budget on tuition, your skill and enjoyment will be transferrable to any car that you drive. In terms of improving the performance of your car, a well driven standard S2 will be quicker and more enjoyable than just about anything on a wet circuit day.