RWD driver training?

[matt21]

after some advice

im 22, been driving 5yrs mainly new minis and feel very comfortable where the limit is in all conditions. as they are FWD they will typically understeer and occasionally can get some lift off oversteer i find it is very easy to tell what the car is doing - such ASC helps!

however i have recently purchased a 1994 525 touring which is a different kettle of fish. no traction control, 192bhp, 6 miles long and RWD! I have had the back end out on roundabouts a few times when greasy after a bit of a boot which I have easily caught - not sure through luck or skill! - but have no idea where the limit is. i normally gently potter around corners as im worried it will just go and spin!

is there any advice you can give, or anywhere that does (cheap) RWD driver training.

thanks

[RobM77]

It sounds like you initially need some confidence on the limit, for which something like a Don Palmer day is recommended: http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/

I would then recommend some advanced road tuition from a driver aware of and enthusiastic about rear drive cars. My personal recommendation is Hugh Noblett: http://www.cadence.co.uk/ He has an excellent style of 'coaching' you rather than just barking instructions at you, and he's a true car enthusiast as well. Check out his CV - it's as good as you'll ever find.

[matt21]

thanks for your advice.

i was ideally looking for something slightly cheaper. as good as don palmer is im sure £450 is a lot for a day. would iam he with RWD confidence etc or are they more hazard perception etc.

[RobM77]

matt21 said:

thanks for your advice.

i was ideally looking for something slightly cheaper. as good as don palmer is im sure £450 is a lot for a day. would iam he with RWD confidence etc or are they more hazard perception etc.

You're right, IAM is entirely about hazard perception and road craft. They will tell you strange hand-me-down stuff about controlling "skids" but what you really need is some proper track/airfield tuition and experience from an experienced and knowledgeable instructor.

[matt21]

lol

IAM strike me as a bunch of keen old gents who have been there seen it got the t-shirt who want to pass on their drivin knowledge to the "less skilled"

are there any similar people who are ex racing drivers that wish to pass on their knowledge and put the good back into driving. was thinking along the lines of sterling or jackie??

[chippiepilot]

You could maybe try Clive Jones in South Wales his details are on the HPC website, http://www.hpc.org.uk/guestjoin.html

[RobM77]

matt21 said:

lol

IAM strike me as a bunch of keen old gents who have been there seen it got the t-shirt who want to pass on their drivin knowledge to the "less skilled"

are there any similar people who are ex racing drivers that wish to pass on their knowledge and put the good back into driving. was thinking along the lines of sterling or jackie??

There are some IAM instructors with racing experience. Hugh's ex colleague John Lyon for instance. Jackie does driver coaching on track - you might pay for it though

[Hooli]

wet empty large carpark + £10 of fuel = fun & experience

HTH


not the most useful comment i know, but it does teach you what to expect etc

[PGM]

John Cave at www.drivetrain.uk.com is just on J10 M40, good friendly guy and charges something like £250 a day.

Drives a 997 and does enjoy teaching.

[BertBert]

Also Ryan Hooker (has a webby www.ryanhooker-racing.co.uk) is a good teacher/coach. At £200 he's ok on value too.
Bert

[Rick448]

In my experience you tend to get what you pay for. I have been with Don Palmer and cannot recommend it highly enough. However as you say it isn't cheap (but well worth it) Sell a kidney on ebay??

[_Neal_]

I can highly recommend Andrew Walsh at www.carlimits.com - I had the same attitude as you on RWD (first RWD car was a TVR Chimaera)- the four person days are excellent and very good value for around £200.

PS - I'm an IAM Observer and haven't been there, let alone got the t-shirt, and I'm not old As said though, IAM is about safe and progressive road driving, not limit handling. It is very good value and useful - although I would say that

[WeirdNeville]

To be honest I think you'll get more benefit out of an IAM course than any kind of "limits handling" course.

The whole point of driving to the system that the IAM teach is that it prevents you getting into situations in the first place, rather than just giving you the skills to get out of the situation once it's developing.

A car is inherantly unstable once the limits of traction are exceeded, it's not an area of car handling that should be explored on the public roads, and I think that any "On the limits" track based courses teach skills that should remain confined to the track.

I'm in no way connected to the IAM, but I've done a police response course which apparently should make me equivalent to an IAM Member. If you're anywhere near high wycombe I'd be more than happy to take you out for a quick demo so you could see if you think you'd benefit from some IAM style training....

[_Neal_]

WeirdNeville said:

A car is inherantly unstable once the limits of traction are exceeded, it's not an area of car handling that should be explored on the public roads, and I think that any "On the limits" track based courses teach skills that should remain confined to the track.

I don't agree with that - I did limit handling in my Chimaera and Cerb so that I could feel where the limits are, and try and get a feel for how the car reacted when approaching/exceeding those limits. Aside from the fact that limit handling is enjoyable if you've practiced these skills, surely you have more chance of doing the right thing if faced with a slide/skid on the road?

The more skills the better, in my view.

[Negative Creep]

Hooli said:

wet empty large carpark + £10 of fuel = fun & experience

HTH


not the most useful comment i know, but it does teach you what to expect etc

I've often thought of doing such a thing, but wouldn't BiB take a very dim view of it?

[vonhosen]

Negative Creep said:

Hooli said:

wet empty large carpark + £10 of fuel = fun & experience

HTH


not the most useful comment i know, but it does teach you what to expect etc

I've often thought of doing such a thing, but wouldn't BiB take a very dim view of it?

Quite possibly.

[Hooli]

vonhosen said:

Negative Creep said:

Hooli said:

wet empty large carpark + £10 of fuel = fun & experience

HTH


not the most useful comment i know, but it does teach you what to expect etc

I've often thought of doing such a thing, but wouldn't BiB take a very dim view of it?

Quite possibly.

yup they often do, so dont pick a car park chavs use for the same.

industrial estates often seem to have slippy/concreate roads that are deserted at night. do a few passes & vanish before little miss busybody calls plod.

[vonhosen]

Hooli said:

vonhosen said:

Negative Creep said:

Hooli said:

wet empty large carpark + £10 of fuel = fun & experience

HTH


not the most useful comment i know, but it does teach you what to expect etc

I've often thought of doing such a thing, but wouldn't BiB take a very dim view of it?

Quite possibly.

yup they often do, so dont pick a car park chavs use for the same.

industrial estates often seem to have slippy/concreate roads that are deserted at night. do a few passes & vanish before little miss busybody calls plod.

Don't forget to factor in Sec 59 Police Reform Act 2002.

[Rick448]

The section is www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/ukpga_20020030_en_7#... For anyone not familiar with it!!

Edited by Rick448 on Sunday 23 December 18:13

[Hooli]

vonhosen said:

Hooli said:

vonhosen said:

Negative Creep said:

Hooli said:

wet empty large carpark + £10 of fuel = fun & experience

HTH


not the most useful comment i know, but it does teach you what to expect etc

I've often thought of doing such a thing, but wouldn't BiB take a very dim view of it?

Quite possibly.

yup they often do, so dont pick a car park chavs use for the same.

industrial estates often seem to have slippy/concreate roads that are deserted at night. do a few passes & vanish before little miss busybody calls plod.

Don't forget to factor in Sec 59 Police Reform Act 2002.

i never said it was a GOOD idea, just recalling siller days from my yoof & various mk2 escorts/xr4is