Tyre Temperature
Discussion
Tyre temperature can be a good thing or a bad thing?, on the track it's good but maybe for fast road use it could be a bad thing, I am not talking about driving at 10/10ths, I am just talking about driving quickly(cough cough) on B roads.
If you want to keep the temperature down but still make good progress is late braking a no no (I don't mean locking up), can you lose the heat before the next bit of late braking, how much heat is generated from speed and how much via the brake discs/wheel tyre.
Is it possible to monitor the temperature, what is a good temp and what isn't.
If you want to keep the temperature down but still make good progress is late braking a no no (I don't mean locking up), can you lose the heat before the next bit of late braking, how much heat is generated from speed and how much via the brake discs/wheel tyre.
Is it possible to monitor the temperature, what is a good temp and what isn't.
Not sure how beneficial elevated temps are for road driving - I suspect not very. However, monitoring tyre temperatures can be very useful:
The idea is to take the temperature at the outside edge, centre and inside edge of each tyre.
If the temps are even across the tyre, then all is well.
If the centre reading is higher (3-4 or more degrees) than the edges, the tyre is over inflated
If the centre reading is lower than the edges, the tyre is under inflated
If the outside edge of the tyre is hotter than the inside edge, there is insufficent negative camber
If the inside edge of the tyre is hotter than the outside edge, there is too much negative camber
The stuff about the camber is more applicable to track cars, but it is a handy way of telling whether the suspension is working as it should be.
The idea is to take the temperature at the outside edge, centre and inside edge of each tyre.
If the temps are even across the tyre, then all is well.
If the centre reading is higher (3-4 or more degrees) than the edges, the tyre is over inflated
If the centre reading is lower than the edges, the tyre is under inflated
If the outside edge of the tyre is hotter than the inside edge, there is insufficent negative camber
If the inside edge of the tyre is hotter than the outside edge, there is too much negative camber
The stuff about the camber is more applicable to track cars, but it is a handy way of telling whether the suspension is working as it should be.
Edited by uberscruff on Saturday 8th September 18:06
Tyre temperature won't be the limiting factor on the road unless there's something wrong (or you are driving like an absolute maniac, which I'm sure is not the case here).
How hot are your tyres getting? Unless they're actually overheating there's no particular reason to worry about cooling them.
How hot are your tyres getting? Unless they're actually overheating there's no particular reason to worry about cooling them.
I'd suggest that the only time tyre temperatures are relevant on the road is in relation to cold winter days. This is where standard "summer" tyres, as fitted to virtually all cars as standard, can fall seriously short. Even when there's no frost, grip can be markedly reduced if it's cold, especially if it's damp as well. I had an exciting tank slapper in my Impreza at the Bedford Autodrome last winter in just such circumstances on my first lap. After that, both the tyres and the driver had warmed up and all was well. Proper winter tyres, however, use a tread compound that works well at such temperatures.
Conversely, on a track road tyres can overheat and grip disappears. However, on the road I can't imagine pushing hard enough for temperatures to become an issue (at least, not in the UK!).
Conversely, on a track road tyres can overheat and grip disappears. However, on the road I can't imagine pushing hard enough for temperatures to become an issue (at least, not in the UK!).
The only time I've ever seen road tyres get too hot is on the track - Goodyear eagle F1's become slicks very quickly.
Regarding being too cold - I think it's more likely the cold conditions in general affecting grip - water and ice or dew on the tarmac. I don't believe there's any difference in road tyres coming "up to temperature" perhaps someone with expenrimental data could help but I can't see road tyres increasing more than 5 degrees C in everyday use.
Regarding being too cold - I think it's more likely the cold conditions in general affecting grip - water and ice or dew on the tarmac. I don't believe there's any difference in road tyres coming "up to temperature" perhaps someone with expenrimental data could help but I can't see road tyres increasing more than 5 degrees C in everyday use.
WeirdNeville said:
The only time I've ever seen road tyres get too hot is on the track - Goodyear eagle F1's become slicks very quickly.
Regarding being too cold - I think it's more likely the cold conditions in general affecting grip - water and ice or dew on the tarmac. I don't believe there's any difference in road tyres coming "up to temperature" perhaps someone with expenrimental data could help but I can't see road tyres increasing more than 5 degrees C in everyday use.
Here we get tyres for a temperate climate.Regarding being too cold - I think it's more likely the cold conditions in general affecting grip - water and ice or dew on the tarmac. I don't believe there's any difference in road tyres coming "up to temperature" perhaps someone with expenrimental data could help but I can't see road tyres increasing more than 5 degrees C in everyday use.
There is an argument for Winter tyres in Scotland and sometimes, lower down.
ScoobyNet, each Winter produces threads about this.
Members from places such as Germany and Japan praise Winter tyres.
It's to do with compounds and the ambient temperature range they are designed to work within.
Your fleet managers might like to consider this.
Is it possile to buy winter tyres, either over the internet or by ordering from a local tyre dealer? Any major disadvantages? ( other than perhaps not lasting so well if you got them really warm on a mid summer track day ). I have an old set of steel wheels I could stick winter tyres on, keeping the nice alloys and summer tyres good for, err, the summer. In places such as Norway, it is normal to have 2 sets of wheels for this purpose.
BIG DUNC said:
Is it possile to buy winter tyres, either over the internet or by ordering from a local tyre dealer? Any major disadvantages? ( other than perhaps not lasting so well if you got them really warm on a mid summer track day ). I have an old set of steel wheels I could stick winter tyres on, keeping the nice alloys and summer tyres good for, err, the summer. In places such as Norway, it is normal to have 2 sets of wheels for this purpose.
Yes, possible, go googling for what you want, size wise.Bear in mind that Winter tyres will often have a speed rating lower than tyres designed for use in more normal temperatures.
BIG DUNC said:
Is it possile to buy winter tyres, either over the internet or by ordering from a local tyre dealer? Any major disadvantages? ( other than perhaps not lasting so well if you got them really warm on a mid summer track day ). I have an old set of steel wheels I could stick winter tyres on, keeping the nice alloys and summer tyres good for, err, the summer. In places such as Norway, it is normal to have 2 sets of wheels for this purpose.
I have a Merc and quite a few MB drivers fit winter tyres - one thing that surprised me is that they tend to last longer than summer tyres, even if used year round. Certainly V rated winter tyres are available, but slower speed rating must be common elsewhere, as Mercs have a 'winter tyres' computer setting to limit the speed - I think the setting is 100MPH.In many countries with 'proper' winters, it's an insurance requirement to fit winter tyres. I read somewhere the other day that that's even become a requirement in Holland now.
I agree with the above - it's always been my understanding that normal road tyres are designed so heat has a minimal effect on grip; an average road tyre has an optimum temperature "window" within which grip levels are much of a muchness, and that window is pretty broad. This would seem to make sense from a safety point of view in that grip levels will be relatively predictable.
I have heard that the grip of road tyres is optimal once they have been through a couple of temperature cycles but that after that the grip on offer is pretty much unaffected by temperature, unless you get extreme heat or cold.
This fits in with my understanding that doing a burn-out before launching at Santa Pod is pretty much pointless on road tyres as the tyres are not designed to grip better when hot.
I have heard that the grip of road tyres is optimal once they have been through a couple of temperature cycles but that after that the grip on offer is pretty much unaffected by temperature, unless you get extreme heat or cold.
This fits in with my understanding that doing a burn-out before launching at Santa Pod is pretty much pointless on road tyres as the tyres are not designed to grip better when hot.
My experience is that road tyres are sensitive to heat and produce far more grip when warm. They also 'peak' at a much lower temperature than many track tyres. However, the point where they start to go off is still considerably higher than I'd expect anyone to achieve on public roads.
Can an advanced driver ever get in a car and just drive from A-B without this orgasm of handwringing over the most irrelevant stuff?
Tyre temperatures on the road? There's bits of road in France I've howled through from corner to corner in the shopping car, smoking the inside front tyre, braking like a madman, having an absolute ball for miles at a time on the French grippy hi-visibility roads near the holiday home. When I arrive the tyres are too hot to touch and there's a pleasant smell of burnt rubber about. I have a broad grin from cheek to cheek and the kids are laughing like drains.
Has fun been ruled out?
SM
Tyre temperatures on the road? There's bits of road in France I've howled through from corner to corner in the shopping car, smoking the inside front tyre, braking like a madman, having an absolute ball for miles at a time on the French grippy hi-visibility roads near the holiday home. When I arrive the tyres are too hot to touch and there's a pleasant smell of burnt rubber about. I have a broad grin from cheek to cheek and the kids are laughing like drains.
Has fun been ruled out?
SM
I had a set of tyres on a car a few years ago that would squeal when cold but quieten down after 10/15 minutes, If I stopped for a brew the squealing would start again for 10 mins, I thought this was normal.
My local tyre man told me they where squealing because they had gone past their sell by, apparently they are good for about 5 years so I got rid of the tyres with 20,000 miles on them for new ones, guess what?, they stopped squealing
It's a pity they don't have a gadget that can monitor your tyre pressure and temperature while you are driving.
My local tyre man told me they where squealing because they had gone past their sell by, apparently they are good for about 5 years so I got rid of the tyres with 20,000 miles on them for new ones, guess what?, they stopped squealing
It's a pity they don't have a gadget that can monitor your tyre pressure and temperature while you are driving.
Any one like to put some absolute numbers for Tyre Temp. I've been experimenting with Tyre pressure on both my Sylva, and my Locost, to get the temp even across the tread. (Measuring at 3 Points). With an infra read gauge, as soon as I stop the car in the pits I get the temp at high 60’s C across all three points on the tread, with each of the readings within 1 degree, now I appreciate that this is not the operating temp, as there is a slow down lap, and cooling as I run into the pit lane, and I assume the outside cools faster. But the only tyre temp I’ve ever seen quoted is ‘formula 1 cars run at over 100 C’. The technician from my tyre manufacture says high 60’s is OK for the tyres (Silverstone full slicks) but will not quote me the design operating range for the tyres as it is ‘confidential’.
I’d like to know if any one else has any actual numbers on temp they achieve, or design temperatures of tyres.
Based on the runs I’ve done I now run both cars at 18PSI cold on three wheels, with the front nearside at 16 PSI. With the configuration of the track this gives a hot pressure of 22 PSI on all four tyres
I’d like to know if any one else has any actual numbers on temp they achieve, or design temperatures of tyres.
Based on the runs I’ve done I now run both cars at 18PSI cold on three wheels, with the front nearside at 16 PSI. With the configuration of the track this gives a hot pressure of 22 PSI on all four tyres
I haven't approached it very scientifically, but when my road tyres are good and hot after a spirited session on track this seems to correspond to a surface temperature of about 55C-60C. I've only cooked the tyres a couple of times and they've always had plenty of time to cool off afterwards before I started checking temperatures so I don't know how hot they got. The operating range for road tyres seems to be substantially lower than the figures that are often quoted for slicks though.
If you're doing this sort of thing properly you will need a pyrometer to measure the temperature inside the tread rather than an IR thermometer which will only read the surface temperature. The surface temperature changes too quickly to be reliable.
If you're doing this sort of thing properly you will need a pyrometer to measure the temperature inside the tread rather than an IR thermometer which will only read the surface temperature. The surface temperature changes too quickly to be reliable.
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